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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #1 
I thought I would post this here in case anyone has any trouble.  On my wife's bike I have 650bSchwalbe G One tires on Crossmax UST rims.  The problem was that once the beads are seated, it is just about impossible to unseat the bead (I have no problems with my 700c versions surprisingly enough).  No amount of hand strength or tire levers could break the bead.  Doing an internet search, this is apparently a common issue with some Schwalbe tires.  I found that after letting the air out of the tire, I could use a small 1" C clamp on the tire, and pull on the clamp to unseat the tire.  A large set of vice grips (with the jaws covered in duct tape to prevent tire damage) also worked well.  But the small C clamp is good for carrying on a ride, since there is no way to get these tires off on a ride.  I tried some other methods I read online, but none seemed to work.
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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #2 
That's why I stopped running the g-ones. Didn't want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere struggling to put a tube in. They were also flat prone where I ride. I tried the c clamp,vise grips, wd40 and 6 levers to bust the bead. I even used a heat gun to try and loosen them up. Eventually after about an hour of constant squeezing at the tire valve area the front tire bead popped. Thankfully this was at home and not on the trail or road.
I switched to clement Strada Ush and haven't looked back. I think my rim diameter 700 c 21iw is to big for the tire.
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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #3 
Its funny you mention switching to the Clement's.  I'm waiting for the 650b sizes to come out so I can switch her bike over to those for the same reason.  Its supposed to be this month sometime.  
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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #4 
Not familiar with the 650b Schwalbe G 1; but I had a very similar experience with a 700c Bontrager 25mm Tubeless on a Bontrager Tubeless Ready Rim a few years ago. After struggling in my garage for an hour or so, and several broken tire levers, I put the wheel outside in the direct summer sun to get hot. That finally worked. That experience made me give up on high pressure road tubeless and switch to latex tubes for my road wheels. I've had much better experience lately however with 700C gravel tires -- 40 mm Ramblers and 35 MM GK Tubeless. Maybe we should make a list of tubeless tires that are hard to install or remove. Any other candidates?
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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh
Maybe we should make a list of tubeless tires that are hard to install or remove. Any other candidates?


Its kind of difficult to do this, because I don't think it is just the tire, but more the wheel/tire combo that causes issues. For instance my 650b G Ones are on a Crossmax UST rim that has a bead bard to lock in the tire.  If I put them on Stans 650b tubeless rims that do not have a bead barb, then they come off easier.  
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #6 

Below is a quote from Guitar Ted on an older tire thread.  It's a pretty concise explanation of tubeless tire/rim compatibility.

Personally, I've had great success with Schwalbe tires and run them on all my bikes - 23c, 25c, 28c, 30c & 35c on road and gravel bikes and larger sizes on mtn bikes.  The road tires @ 23c have been on Campagnolo Eurus wheels and the rest on DT Swiss XR 1501 wheels.  All have gone on by hand and have inflated w/a floor pump.

In fact, the Schwalbe tires were a revelation for me on the Eurus wheels.  The tires I previously used were Hutchinson and they were nearly impossible to get on or off the wheel even in a shop situation.  And when I cut a sidewall on a ride, it took 6 hands to install the tire over a tube w/o using tire levers.  I had thought the problem was primarily with the wheel but, after converting to Schwalbe, it seems it was either the tire or the combination.  Now I'm confident that I can install a tube by myself if I get a flat.

What I've discovered regarding gravel riding is that a lot of this stuff is all new.  There is still a lot of innovation and experimentation going on - especially in drivetrains.  So sometimes we have to figure it out as we go.



"Dr Spoke is on the right track. Stan's- a product meant to convert non-tubeless tires to tubeless- uses a BSD (Bead Socket Design) which is slightly larger in diameter to accommodate for the comparatively imprecise bead measurements of folding bead, standard tires. This will allow you to convert them to tubeless with less fear of blowing the tire off the rim.

Tubeless design tires have much tighter (comparatively) specifications for bead diameter. And if the tire uses UST dimensions, the bead diameter is even a tiny bit smaller than a standard folding bead tire bead diameter to allow for an air tight seal with UST design/based rim designs. Remember- The differences are within a millimeter or less, but that makes a huge difference in how things actually fit.

WTB, GEAX/Vittoria and Michelin all adhere to UST based dimensions on their tires and it is a well known issue that these brand's tires do not work well- or at all- with Stan's based rims, which American Classic rims are based off of. Sun/Ringle' tubeless rims also use a Stan's based design/dimensions for tubeless rims, by the way.

So, if the Schwalbe G-One is based off a UST dimension for the tire bead, it would be no wonder that it doesn't fit the American Classic rim well, because they base their design off a Stan's dimension.  I cannot confirm that Schwalbe is using this UST based dimension for their tire bead design, but it sounds like they are. 

This is the trouble with tubeless tires at the moment- There are two major competing rim designs and tire manufacturers that either buy into using UST or fudge it so that they fit more rims than UST based ones. Some rim manufacturers shoot for a middle ground as well. The tire and rim folks  are not going to freely share info regarding where their products fall in terms of fit either because that limits sales, which they are loathe to risk doing. Although some publicly do post this information, it isn't industry wide. Meanwhile, the consumer is left to sort it all out on their own dime.

RidingGravel.com has a tire finder guide, and with that we may start adding some info on tubeless tire fit. Perhaps a rim guide is in order as well. It's a monumental task, but we may give it a go.

Thanks for using the forum guys!"

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chas

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Reply with quote  #7 
Wow, good info!  Something to be aware of.

From what I recall with GT, 
Tubeless tires can work well on tubeless rims. 
non tubeless tires can work well on Stan's rims
Tubeless tires on Stan's rims are a bad combo - as stated the diameter is a bit different.

And, it depends on everything it seems.

I was concerned getting the Maxxis Rambler because GT (I think it was) had such a hard time mounting them.

I put them on Easton EA90 and Bontrager's road tubeless both with no problem.   Whew!
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