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mr_slow

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'm looking for a 650b wheelset to be used for more brutal single track style of riding. I currently have the HED Belgium Plus wheels for my 700c wheelset, and I'm running tires close to 45mm wide. I decided to buy some Hunt 650 wheels, but when I mounted the Byway tires on them, they only measured 43mm (tire is a 47), which had me wondering what was going on. I measured the external and internal of the rims, and they are ~23.5-24 external and ~19.2-19.3 internal, even though they were supposed to be 20 internal, so those will be getting returned. 

I think what I'm looking for is ~22-23mm internal hoop, that will take those 47mm tires up to ~50mm. I'm not against going with carbon, but seems like a lot of extra money for a wheelset that will get minimal use. I'd like to keep within ~$1k, has to have thru-axles (12x100 and 12x142), center-lock rotor mounting, and 11-speed compatible. If I go custom, I'd probably go with White Industry hubs, as the ones on my 700c set have been great so far (3,200 miles). 

Thanks! 
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owly

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Reply with quote  #2 
DT Swiss XR361 is 22.5mm Inner width.

You can purchase the rims, or quite a few Euro sites do builds e.g. r2-bike.
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #3 
I can do a build for you with WTB 650b KOM i23 or i25 rims and keep you within your budget. PM me if interested.
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nalax

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Reply with quote  #4 
They should stretch a bit from that 43. My Byways are 46mm on WTB i19 rims. The KOM goes up to a 29!
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JWB475

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Reply with quote  #5 
HED has a 650B Ardennes Plus. My 48mm Gravel Kings measure out to 50mm on them.
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kowalski

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Reply with quote  #6 
Shimano XT trail wheelset (8020), best bang for your buck. I picked up a pair of these for less than $250. 28h front/rear, Center Lock disc. They have super wide 27mm outer, 24mm inner rims. I'm running WTB Byways tubeless with Orange Sealant on these, super easy to setup. 


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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #7 
Shimano XT wheels are a good bargain, however 400+ grams heavier than the build we're already talking about off site.
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kowalski

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Reply with quote  #8 
Keith Bontrager said it best "Strong.Light.Cheap. Pick Two"


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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #9 
Kowalski, I'm not saying your recommendation isn't a good one. I have also steered people to Shimano wheels that had tighter budgets than what I build with. But the OP also is looking more towards the higher end.. "White Industries" and "HED" and a "$1k" budget were part of the formula so the theme about where this was going in terms of parts was established as well.

Keith also said that light years ago when component quality and selection for custom builds was nothing compared to how it is now. [wink]

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mr_slow

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks for everyone's input so far, I've been researching them as people are throwing them out. Seems there are quite a few options out there, that my original Google search didn't yield. After looking into some of the stock builds, I do think it makes sense to do a custom build, similar to my 700c's.

The XT's seem like a good deal, but they are quite heavy, and I've had some issues with XT's, mind you back in the 26er era, that make me want to look elsewhere first. Also, I was only able to find 15mm thru-axle versions, not sure how easy it is to convert Shimano hubs to a 12mm?

I do like my HED wheels, but it looks like the Ardennes Plus only come in a 21mm internal rim width, and I want to go wider than the Belgium Plus. 

The DT Swiss hoops look pretty sweet, they are now on my list of potentials, I've just never ridden any DT Swiss hoops, I only have experience with their hubs. I'm sure they're a solid hoop, but any issues with it staying true, too flexy, etc.? 

I'm also still on the fence about the WTB's, as they bit me in the ass back in the early 2000's, but I'm sure that is a long gone issue, so they're also in my list of potentials. 

Thanks again!
Greg 
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kowalski

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Reply with quote  #11 
I'm a big fan of custom wheels and was going to go custom myself for my 650b setup up until a friend suggested the XT trail wheels. Hard to beat them for the price and at close to 200lbs, I don't notice the extra weight. Like you, I wanted wide rims to mount my WTB Byways on and they fit the bill quite nicely.

You could do a really nice custom 650b build with DT350's, Sapim D-Lights or your choice of spoke and Kinlin TL-23 (24mm internal) tubeless rims. I have a set of road wheels (Wheelbuilder custom DT240/Sapim CX-Ray,Kinlin XC279) and a set of road/dirt  wheels(DT350/Sapim D-light,Kinlin XR31) and both have been extremely solid. If you have never considered Kinlin rims before, give them a look.



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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #12 
Kinlin are pretty cheap but really inconsistent quality. No doubt that a decent wheel can be built with them, if you find a good one. Just to give you an idea what that entails; I did some contract builds for a company who's main rim line was Kinlin. I literally had to dig through boxes of 40 to find a decent pair. Their QC is absolutely atrocious and it made for really poor behaving wheels in the stand. Subsequently they were liquidated after enough builders complained. Looks like Rich at wheelbuilder.com has done the same. 
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drwelby

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Reply with quote  #13 
People I know who fit the OP's use description are mostly on DT hubs and KOMs. There have been some carbon rims creeping in, as well as Sram 900 hubs (but they're not centerlock so not an option in this case). The DT hubs also give you some modular options should you change bikes.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #14 
Another rim to add to your list?  Ryde Edge 22.  These are pretty similar in weight to the DT and KOM rims already mentioned.  I think it would be fair to say these three are all going to be about the same for stiffness.  They are XC rims and have weight limits, and there is always going to be a compromise with weight vs. strength/stiffness.  

17423_32.jpg 


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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #15 
If you downgraded your hubs from White Industries, it should be possible to get a pair of LB carbon rims with 22mm internal for under your budget, and not that far over with them. Downgrading to Hope RS4 or DT 350.
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #16 
Mmmm, not so much. Downgrading wasn't really part of the formula here or the conversation we had off-site. Seems mr_slow is pretty stoked on White Industries, and I can't disagree as most of my personal sets over the years have been as well. Carbon not needed for this bulid, also established off-site. Ryde rims are ok, basically the Rigida revival. Many of the same machines tooling from the old days btw. But I think a WTB i23 KOM is a better rim for the money, especially so when pairing with the same brand tire using the TCS profile beads. And of course, a domestic company. He did mention some reservations about past WTB issues, and he was right they used to be sup par. It was about 2012 when they switched manufacturers and went from zero to hero just like that. I was living in Colorado at the time and have hundreds of customers rolling this same exact build since the switch up and down the Front Range with nothing but smiles.[smile]     
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hey man, I know you are a very competent wheel builder and meant no disrespect.  Just wanted to throw out a few other ideas into the conversation.  

That's all.  

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BluesDawg

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Reply with quote  #18 
The Byways I have on the wheels I just built for myself using WTB Frequency i23 rims are measuring 47-48mm.
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
Hey man, I know you are a very competent wheel builder and meant no disrespect.  Just wanted to throw out a few other ideas into the conversation.  

That's all.  


None taken. I'm just relaying what direction this went when the conversation went to email and the details of wants vs needs were laid out on the table. mr_slow still needs to return a Hunt wheel set, so options and conversation are still in play. [thumb]

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plohnes

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Reply with quote  #20 
Just got word from American Classic that they will have 27.5 wheels arriving in the first week of October. I have been running their 700c Argents for the past year on very rugged New England terrain and they have been bombproof. I assume the 27.5 MTB Race wheels will be slightly lighter and even stronger. 24mm inside width. I think the price point will be $750..
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mr_slow

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Reply with quote  #21 

Thanks everyone for the input and discussion around this subject! 

I've decided to go the route of building my own wheels, this will be a first for me, I've been working on my mountain bike wheels, and replacing all of the nipples, which has taken a lot more time than I would have assumed, and I'm sure building a full set of wheels will take a lot longer. I decided to go with DT hubs and Stans Crest hoops (went DT hubs, as I get a really good discount), and went with the Stans hoops over the KOM's, on a suggestion from the mechanics at the shop I used to work at. If anyone is looking to go this route, you can get these wheels built and delivered from Colorado Cyclist @ $800 (they have a deal right now to save 10%). https://www.coloradocyclist.com/dt-swiss-240-stan-s-ztr-crest-wheelset-27-5in I know that Ridemagnetic can also do a very similar build for around the same price, and talking with him offline, he seems like a great dude with a LOT of experience, so you'd probably get a better build from him, over Colorado Cyclist's deal. 

Thanks again!
Greg

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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #22 
Excellent! DIY is exactly how I ended up wheel building 31 years ago. If you need any guidance during your build don't hesitate to ask... I have taught many.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #23 
I wish you well with your wheels, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed with your rim choice.  Based on your original post stating "more brutal single track style of riding", Crest rims would be the last rim that would have come to mind.  To mention a few things, they cannot be built to the same tensions as most rims, tension drop can be very significant when tires are installed, and the 190 lb. weight limit.  Yes, you can build sub 1600 gram wheels, but is it worth it?
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #24 
I would have to agree with oleritter on the rim choice too. But there's a comes a time where I just have to throw up my hands an concede. I know mr_slow is in Colorado, and Stan's rims have been very popular there for a long time. I think this is due to the fact that CO was a big time early tubeless adopter (goathead thorn territory), and back in the day there really wasn't much else to choose from besides Stan's so the market saturation in that part of the country is deeply-seated. Interestingly enough, many of those KOM builds I did when living there were for people dissatisfied with Crest rims. Riders even lighter than mr_slow's 160ish lbs would complain about their noodley ride quality. Even turned customers away because they wouldn't ride anything but.  

A quote from my instagram account during a Stan's teardown:

Quote:
"The best part of a Stan's build is taking it apart for recycling. Life is too short to ride sh!t wheels."


Stan's did go through a complete redesign of their rims recently. But changing the shape only effects stiffness marginally on shallow rims if you're using the same alloys and manufacturer. Still a really soft rim, as denoted by max kgf and rider weight limit.  



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mr_slow

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Reply with quote  #25 
Well, sh!t, sounds like I went in the wrong direction... I will have to do some digging and read a bit more, my initial google search yielded loads of complaints around the Stans Crest MK3..... sounds like I'll be returning those tomorrow (just went to pick them up). I may just return everything at that point, as I really did want to stick with White Industry hubs, thanks again guys!
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