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overconfident

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Reply with quote  #1 

Hi there, first post on here, from over the ocean in the UK

I’ve been looking for a suitable tyre for my Genesis CDF, which will mostly see road riding, but has to cope with a fair bit of rockyness when I do venture off. Gravel riding near me consists of long road sections linking up shorter offroad sections, but these often borderline on easy XC riding.

So I decide that something 35-40mm, tubeless, slick, and tough enough to not fall apart on rocky ground would be good. Ideally weighing around 350-400g per wheel.

These are the options I found:

> Panaracer Gravelking slick 38mm (320g)

> Hutchinson Override 35mm or 38mm (350g or 400g)

> Compass Bon Jon Pass 35mm (350g)

> Challenge Strada Bianca TLR 36mm (375g)

> Schwalbe G-One allround 35mm (400g)

> Mavic YKSION elite allroad 35mm (380g or so I think)

> Ritchey Alpine JB 35mm (400g)

> WTB Exposure 34mm (370mm, come up large)

I’ve read not-so-good things about the Schwalbe’s, Mavic’s, Compass and WTB’s getting torn up easily. But I guess these anecdotal stories are inevitable.

In any case the Compass are super expensive and so are the Challenge Strada.

I don't know much about the Ritchey’s, but not easy to find here in the UK.

The Hutchinson’s get great reviews and are super cheap. Could be perfect, but damn my superficial side wants some tan sidewalls…

So that leaves the Gravelkings, which I really want due to the aesthetics. But this 320g weight scares me... I just heard from Panaracer that the casing is the same as on the SK's, which suggests they should be good. But still, the 38mm SK's are 440g... How are the slick's 120g lighter?!

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chas

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Reply with quote  #2 
Yeah, please tell me the answer.

Schwalb G-ones I have seem to be good - I don't put much weight in ancedotal stories unless they can tell me what/how/why it happened.  I do a post mortem on every flat I have ever had.  I know why it happpend and what I can do to prevent it if anything.

the Schwalb's have a built in innertube that adds to their weight.  I beat the snot out of my bikes in every kind of discipline, and flats for me are super rare.  Many of mine have been pinch flats because I underbike (running skinny tires too hard), but that problem has disapeared with tubless.

If you are running flinty chunky gravel - you need good sidewall protection.  but other than that I find it rare to have a flat in the tread - although I occasionally get a wire/staple/nail in the rear tire.  Again, tubeless solves that issue until I can get home.

So, I almost bought some Panaracer Pari-moto tires until I read way too many reviews of people getting flats with them - not something I want in a gravel tire (why tempt fate?).  I'm wondering if the GK slick is more like the Pari-moto than the GK-SK.    Just for comparison, the schwalbe slicks vs Short Knobs isn't much of a weight difference at all.
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drwelby

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Reply with quote  #3 
Maxxis Velocita AR comes in a 700x40 EXO version.
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owly

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Reply with quote  #4 
Those Gravel King slicks are that weight due to the narrower rubber depth at the middle of the tyre. 
Which is why they don't last as long. 

Pony up the cash for some tanwall Compass 35's in the standard weight (or even the 38) if those rockier surfaces aren't too rough or sharp. 
They roll awesome on the sealed roads setup tubeless. My preference is Orange Seal Endurance. 

Or just get the GravelKing slicks for way cheaper and replace when they wear out.
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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #5 
I ride exclusively Schwalbe tires on all my bikes (road mountain and gravel).  I too have seen many reviews about G-Ones being fragile, honestly I have no idea where these people are riding, because mine have been great in all kinds of terrain.  I have 30mm G One speed on my "road" gravel bike, 40mm G One allround and 27.5 x 2.0 G One speed for my gravel bike.  My only complaint with the G Ones is that with my UST rims, the beads are so tight you gotta have really strong hands to unseat the tire.  I usually end up having to use a c-clamp to get them unseated.  But they are the fastest gravel tires around.  They tested the 29x2.3 G One speed (back when it was called Big One) and it has lower rolling resistance then a 35mm Compass Bon Jon.  A 35mm G One speed is going to be seriously fast.
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Masshoff

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Reply with quote  #6 
If tubeless is important, avoid the Compass Bon Jon Pass. It took 3 weeks and maybe 3x the usual amount of sealant before they would hold air. Even then, I’d find one or both tires randomly and totally deflated once in a while - not punctured, just lost air through sidewall. That being said, when they did hold air, they were a great riding tire - maybe the most comfortable and fast tire I’ve ridden. But they weren’t worth the constant maintaining. I went through 2 sets, including a set that was replaced by Compass for this reason.

I use the GK slicks now. Similar to the BJ Pass - maybe not quite as smooth and not as fast, but it’s a trade diff I am willing to make in order to actually have air in the tires. Super easy set up tubeless and maintainence-free.




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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #7 
I really like my Gravelking slick 38. I'm running them tubeless, mostly on pavement. Don't have experience with many tire in this size but I don't think you can go wrong with GK. Plus they look great. IMG_2765.jpeg 
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #8 
I've had 2.5k flat free miles on 48 mm tires that weigh 370g, so the 320 (really like 340) of GKs isn't anything to worry about.
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overconfident

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks for the input everyone.

Problem solved for now -- I have some 38mm GK's on the way (had to order from Germany...) and just picked up some Schwalbe G-one Allround from ebay :-)

I'm really curious just to see what the GK's feel like, like how thin they are. I don't mind if they don't have a long lifespan, given that they're not too expensive and their beauty... but I hope they are reliable while they last. If not, on go the G-one's.

I'm still curious about the mixed feedback on the Compass tyres. Masshoff and owly -- are you running the extralight or standard?
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SlowPokePete

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Reply with quote  #10 
I dig the GravelKings...running 700x38's on my Lynskey, actual measurement on 24mm i/d rims is 40mm.

Best deal around, too...waiting on Excel Sport to re-stock (10-15-2018) for my upcoming order...how can you beat $32/tire?

SPP
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michaeld61

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Reply with quote  #11 
I like my Soma Supple Vitesse. They are very similar to Compass but way cheaper. they come in an extra wear version which I have. From what I hear, they are slightly tougher than Compass. Both Compass and the supple Vitesse are made by Panaracer. I have only ridden the Soma's, not the Compass.

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heybrady

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Reply with quote  #12 

My riding type is very similar to yours (mostly road with occasional off-road) and the 35mm (really 38mm) Gravel SK are great.  Looking at my ride data from my CAAD8 with GP4K versus the Jamis with Gravel SK 35, my times are just about identical and certainly nothing that is noticeable on my normal ride.  

I like the extra tread of the GK SK versus the SK for when times I venture into some looser ground. 

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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #13 
My $.02, having several thousand miles of mixed (50/50)paved and unpaved roads on Compass 35 MM Bon Jon's (smooth tread), 38 mm Gravel King SK's (dimpled tread with knobby corners), and 40 mm Schwalbe G-One Allrounds (dimpled tread). These are all very good tires and choice really depends on your riding style, surfaces, and skills. Here are some observations.

Compass Bon Jon's: The BJ's come either with a standard casing or an extra light casing. My experience is with the extra light version. The extra light version are scary light. And, very fast! The downside is they are PITA to set up tubeless. The thin sidewalls are more fragile than the others on my list. Even if you don't cut them on road debris or sharp stones, they fatigue quickly do to the flexing of soft casing. Mine were shot after about 1000 miles. The BJ's are OK on hard pack dirt and gravel; but on softer surfaces, they don't hook up nearly as well as either the the GK's or Allrounds. The bottom line is that if speed is a high priority for you, I believe the BJ"s are the lightest and fastest amongst the three tires I'm comparing.

Gravel King SK's: I have nothing bad to say about the GK's. They are made in the same factory (Panaracer) as the Compass tires, and cost about half as much. Although they are rated tubeless compatible - not tubeless ready- tubeless set up is easy and they hold air very well using good sealant. Hook up on loose surfaces is much better than the BJ's and comparable to the G-Ones. This is the tire I would recommend for all around gravel performance and value.

Schwalbe G-One Allrounds: I have no way to scientifically test tire rolling resistance. The Allrounds have a impermeable liner and are rated tubeless ready, and are very easy to install tubeless. You could probably run them without sealant (not a good idea). On paved roads, the Allrounds seem a touch faster than the GK's. On unpaved roads however, they hook up on soft surface about the same as the GK's. In my experience, both the Allrounds and the GK's are tough and durable. Frankly, there isn't much difference in overall gravel performance between the budget priced GK's and the more expensive Allrounds.
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widerisfaster

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Reply with quote  #14 
I've done 2000km on my Compass Bon Jon 35's, 95% on road. I'm running the Extralights. They didn't like tubeless setup on my Giant wheels, they popped off the bead on the first night of setup, but seated OK the second time, and were fine for 6 months and 1200km before I upgraded the bike and wheels. They set up nicely tubeless on my Light Bicycle wheels and have been great for 3 months so far. I think its difficult to match tubeless tyres and wheels right now, there is not enough consistency in tyre and wheel diameters. A tight tyre/wheel combo is hard to fit, but secure. A looser tyre/wheel combo is easier to fit, but can be risky at too high or too low air pressure. It's hard to blame a single brand of tyre or wheel. 

The Bon Jons roll beautifully. We did a 300km road ride on Sunday and averaged 28.8km/h on these tyres. I'm riding this bike more than the road bike now, due to increased comfort with minimal speed penalty. 
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pushstart

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Reply with quote  #15 
Yeah, +1 for Compass.  Definitely if this is for a primarily *road* bicycle, these are great road tires.  I'd get the Barlow Pass (38mm) if you've got room for them, but I'm sure the BJP are great too.  I run the Barlow Pass now in extralight.  I rode 45 miles of gravel this past weekend, though this is small gravel that wouldn't really be a sidewall risk.  I've ridden thousands of miles on the standard and extralight versions of these and Snoqualmie Pass (44mm) tires and haven't gotten any flats.  Most of those miles are on nice pavement, but I wouldn't consider the Compass tires to be fragile.  I don't expect to buy standard casing Compass tires anymore either; the extralights seem fine for the roads I ride and they are significantly nicer.

I use the Compass tires tubeless on my LB wheels *which are _not_ hookless*.  They also worked great tubeless on my DT R460db spare/winter wheelset.  I had them blow off a set of Yishun hookless rims, so I wouldn't trust a hookless setup with these tires.

I definitely would not consider the G-One fragile.  I have yet to flat a G-One tire, and that includes using them at a bunch of gravel races, including Hilly Billy Roubaix and Iron Cross.   In contrast, I unrepairably flatted a Panaracer GK on the first ride -- but that's just anecdotal and I'm sure was bad luck.  The G-One is a very fast tire on the road, but it's not in the same league as a Compass tire (especially extralight).
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widerisfaster

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Reply with quote  #16 
My Bon Jons seat up on the Hookless Light Bicycle RM29C06 rims with just a floor pump, no problems mounting tubeless or staying on the rim.
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pushstart

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by widerisfaster
My Bon Jons seat up on the Hookless Light Bicycle RM29C06 rims with just a floor pump, no problems mounting tubeless or staying on the rim.


I'm glad yours work.  My BPs also seated up on my hookless rim with a floor pump.  And then after 3000 miles or so, the front blew off the rim while I was cruising along at 40/45 psi after 2-3000 miles.  So, I'm not gonna risk that again.

(But my rims were also a little "small" -- which is great for mounting tires like Schwalbe.  I'd be more inclined to trust LBs hookless rims -- which I also have/use, but given their pressure recommendations are <40psi, I'm likely to exceed that on the supple Compass tires and don't want to increase the risk of needing my face rebuilt.)
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #18 
Stories like that make me (kinda) glad my Compasses only blew up in my ear or while my bike was sitting in garage and only caused hearing damage.  It could have been way worse.
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Masshoff

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Reply with quote  #19 
I didn’t have a Bon Jon blow off a rim - that sounds like pressure is too high. Mine would air up and snap into place easily. My problem was that the tires were too thin or permeable to hold air and required a ton of sealant and sealing to hold air with any reliability.
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