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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have a 2016 Raleigh Roker Sport, which came with Tiagra 4700 10-speed and Weinmann Impulse TL wheels.

I'm looking to upgrade to Ultegra 6800 11-speed, however the cassette would not fit.  There is no spacer on the freehub.

Does anyone know if the freehub body can be changed to 11-speed compatible?  I really have no information on the hub.  Thanks. IMAG1030.jpg

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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #2 
I doubt it can be done. You would need a new free hub, different axle end caps (which are not likely to exist) and then you would have to re center the rim on the hub (by adjusting the spokes). Your best bet is to contact Weinmann to see if the parts exist.
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #3 
To follow up: I took the wheel to the LBS.  Once they found a 14mm Allen Key (!), they were able to take off the freehub body.  I didn't get the details, but they said that they could not find a compatible 11-speed freehub body.  They could, however, find 10-speed replacements.

So, when it's time to upgrade to 11-speed . . .I guess it's a new wheelset.
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GSPChilliwack

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Reply with quote  #4 
The new Shimano 11-34 11 speed cassette will fit on a 10 speed freehub body.

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Nbudor

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Reply with quote  #5 
https://whosatthewheel.com/2015/01/29/the-11-speed-switchover/
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
The new Shimano 11-34 11 speed cassette will fit on a 10 speed freehub body. 


You know, I saw that too.  How is that supposed to work with the 6800 rear deraileur?  Isn't the spacing different?
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GSPChilliwack

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimdba


You know, I saw that too.  How is that supposed to work with the 6800 rear deraileur?  Isn't the spacing different?


It's my understanding that there's no difference in the spacing between the cogs vs. other 11 speed cassettes, but--the same way mtb 11 spd cassettes fit on 10 spd freehubs--the inner-most cog is big enough to fit over the spokes and hub flange. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSPChilliwack


It's my understanding that there's no difference in the spacing between the cogs vs. other 11 speed cassettes, but--the same way mtb 11 spd cassettes fit on 10 spd freehubs--the inner-most cog is big enough to fit over the spokes and hub flange. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct.  The spacing is the same.  When the gears get large, like the 34t, you can offset the cog towards the spokes to get the extra clearance for the 11th cog.  You cannot do this with smaller cogs because they would hit the spokes.
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #9 
Got it.  Thanks all.  I guess I need to figure out which approach I want to take.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #10 
The 10 speed hubs (and drive train) are no doubt a cost saving measure, and you are unlikely to be able to convert most to 11 speed.

The 6800 long cage is supposed to max out at 32 teeth.  It may not work, but also it might.  I found a Campy derailleur to work on a 32, when it should have maxed at 29t.  Campy didn't make a 32t.  [wink]  

That said, let me know if you are in the market for a wheelset.  I build them.

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dangle

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Reply with quote  #11 
Talking to oleritter for a new wheelset certainly isn't a bad idea, but those recommending the Ultegra R8000 in 11-34 are correct. Mine finally arrived so that I could re-purpose a pair of Stan's Crest wheels for cyclocross season. The 11-34 is the only 11 speed Ultegra cassette that fits standard 10 speed spacing. No adjustments needed. The spacing is the same as any other 11 speed Shimano cassette. The 34 just sort of hangs off the back of the hub towards the spokes. I'm using a short cage 105 5800 rear derailleur with that cassette in a 1x application. A 6800 rear derailleur will also be fine. My b screw isn't even close to maxed, but it's out a ways. 

*Unrelated data point* My 2017 Raleigh RXS came with an 11 speed freehub on the Impulse TL wheels.
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teoblar

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Reply with quote  #12 
WolfTooth makes some bits to essentially drop your derailleur to fit larger cassettes.  Think of an extension arm on your derailleur hanger.  I ran an Ultegra Di2 short cage with an 11-42t cassette with no issues at either end.  I believe it is called a GoatLink.
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle
Talking to oleritter for a new wheelset certainly isn't a bad idea, but those recommending the Ultegra R8000 in 11-34 are correct. Mine finally arrived so that I could re-purpose a pair of Stan's Crest wheels for cyclocross season. The 11-34 is the only 11 speed Ultegra cassette that fits standard 10 speed spacing. No adjustments needed. The spacing is the same as any other 11 speed Shimano cassette. The 34 just sort of hangs off the back of the hub towards the spokes. I'm using a short cage 105 5800 rear derailleur with that cassette in a 1x application. A 6800 rear derailleur will also be fine. My b screw isn't even close to maxed, but it's out a ways. 

*Unrelated data point* My 2017 Raleigh RXS came with an 11 speed freehub on the Impulse TL wheels.


My riding buddy spent extra to get the Roker Comp with SRAM 1x11.  I think one of the benefits of that extra cash was to get better hubs (I think it also has full hydro brakes).

I've read amongst the forums that the 6800 mid-cage will work with a 34t cassette, I just wasn't sure when I read about the different spacing of that particular cassette.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to go with a new wheelset, or just grab that cassette.  Compounding the issue is that I wanted to go cheap buying a Raleigh, so if I didn't like it I wouldn't be out a ton of cash.  Well, it turns out I really like riding gravel . . .I just don't love my bike.  I think it's a bit unresponsive, heavy, and most importantly feels small, like I bought the wrong size.  I have a 110mm stem on it and still feels small when I'm in the drops.  So maybe at this point, I buy a new frameset or new bike altogether.

Hey, it's only money right?
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teoblar

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Reply with quote  #14 
Cassette or wheels won't help with sizing, for sure.  I have had, and currently own, several Raleigh RXS/RX/RXC bikes (and a Furley at one point).  I keep going back to them as I find the fit to be just right for me.

The TL hubs spin pretty nice when they are new, but the wheels on a whole are heavy and can really deaden a ride.  I think it's the combination of deep rim profiles and thick alloy walls that kill the ride feel.

Oh, if it's only money, there is a Ti Warbird for sale here (shameless self-promotion).
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #15 
The sizing isn't *that* far off I suppose.  I have ridden 3-4 centuries and over 900 miles since buying in March.

Maybe I should buy/build a set of wheels and see how much I like the ride.  If I buy another frameset, I can just move the wheels to that one.
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dangle

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimdba
I've read amongst the forums that the 6800 mid-cage will work with a 34t cassette, I just wasn't sure when I read about the different spacing of that particular cassette.Hey, it's only money right?


The spacing (between cogs) isn't any different.
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dangle

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
The TL hubs spin pretty nice when they are new, but the wheels on a whole are heavy and can really deaden a ride.


My 2017 Impulse TL (with 11 speed freehub) weighed 1933 grams total for reference. Not great, but I have seen plenty of OEM road wheels weigh more.
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teoblar

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Reply with quote  #18 
If you do get different wheels, be sure they can be converted to one of the 12 'new' standards.  It would be a shame to fall in love with a frame and have to ditch your wheels just to make it work.  Shimano wheels, while nice, are notorious for not being convertable.
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zimdba

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Reply with quote  #19 
Aren't most newer hubs convertible between QR and Thru-axle?

I really like the Ti Warbird.  Right size too.  I test-rode a 55 Alu/105 Warbird and really liked it.  I can't stand SRAM though.  Unfortunately, not in the budget right now.
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Nbudor

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Reply with quote  #20 
When I converted to 11s on novatec 712 hub I just filed off 2mm on the bottom of the splines as described in this article : http://www.velonews.com/2013/10/bikes-and-tech/how-to-convert-a-10-speed-29er-wheel-to-a-cross-disc-hoop-and-align-rotors_306588
Sunrace also has 11-36 11s cassette for MTB freehub, which is a good alternative for Ultegra 11-34 should you be so inclined:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/SunRace-CSMS8-11-Speed-11-36-40-42-46-Black-Silver-Cassette-fit-Shimano-SRAM/231827830471?hash=item35fa03f6c7:g:jkoAAOSw6ShZWIyu

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Croz

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
If you do get different wheels, be sure they can be converted to one of the 12 'new' standards.  It would be a shame to fall in love with a frame and have to ditch your wheels just to make it work.  Shimano wheels, while nice, are notorious for not being convertable.


This!

Hey, Zimdba - we've ridden a few miles togwther this past summer. I had good legs the last ride ;-)

There are 2 different front axle standards: 12mm and 15mm... some manufacturers seem to be using the 12mm in the hopes that it catches on under the guise that it reduces weight, while others are using the 15mm since it's been the mtb standard - until Boost spacing came along. Sigh... I'm not a betting man, but my wheels have 15mm because my fork is 15mm.

Rear axles seem to be settling on 12x142, though Specialized had several generations of bikes with a 12x135 that they called SCS... it made it REALLY difficult for Diverge owners to get a second set of wheels built up that would slip in with out having to adjust the rear derailleur and in some cases the disc caliper. I believe they've dropped that for 2018. So beware of old Diverge models.

The lesson - as teoblar said - is if you build a set of wheels make sure they have end caps that allow them to be switched easily to whatever standards your new bike has. Dt Swiss, Velocity, and others have simple replaceable systems. I really like the White Industries CLD hubs, though they are a bit more involved to change over (it requires basic tools) - but it can be done with even a bit of mechanical aptitude. I like the ease of changing endcaps, but since it is likely a one time change its not a big deal.

Croz

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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #22 
I think it's pretty safe to say 12mm has replaced 15mm for road/gravel/cross bikes.

And, there is a simple conversion for 15 to 12mm, too.  

Run away from Specialized SCS.  Far away!  [rofl]

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ATLien

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
I think it's pretty safe to say 12mm has replaced 15mm for road/gravel/cross bikes.


Interesting.  Most bikes on my "watchlist" are all still 15x100:

Niner RLT
Salsa Warbird
Salsa Cutthroat
Raleigh Roker (I own a Roker Sport).

The only bike I keep an eye on that's 12x100 up front is the Jamis Renegade.
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clarksonxc

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Reply with quote  #24 
I agree with that, 15x100mm is still popular in the cx/gravel world.  Maybe road disc is starting to standardize on 12x100mm, I don't know.
That's why I "standardized" on DT 240's, so I can match any new standard!  Get a good set of I9 or DT hubs, and you'll be almost future-proof.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #25 
Yeah, I'm not claiming to be clairvoyant as to the future of 15 vs. 12mm on cross or gravel bikes.  But there are plenty of new CX and gravel bikes with 12mm front axles.  I guess we shall see.

But the good news is many or most of the disc hubs are both available in and easily converted to either/or.  It's not something to be very concerned about.

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