The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Nothing-2-see

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #1 
I recently got a new bike, and it has tubless ready wheels/tires.  It came w/ schwalbe g one tires.  I was surprised at how fast they wore out.
I then put on Clement/donnely MSO's, and man, I am surprised that these are wearing out quickly too.
It seem the MSO tubless tires are wearing more quickly than the tubed versions that I have run in the past. 

Is this to be expected?

Thanks
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing-2-see
I recently got a new bike, and it has tubless ready wheels/tires.  It came w/ schwalbe g one tires.  I was surprised at how fast they wore out.
I then put on Clement/donnely MSO's, and man, I am surprised that these are wearing out quickly too.
It seem the MSO tubless tires are wearing more quickly than the tubed versions that I have run in the past. 

Is this to be expected?

Thanks


Can you be more specific? How fast is "fast" here? What pressures are you running? What do you weigh? Where do you ride them? I have nearly 1k on a pair of G-Ones and the center nubs still have their dimples.
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 758
Reply with quote  #3 
I have a pair of G-One's recently installed. After a few weeks and a few hundred miles, I haven't noticed much wear, compared to other Gravel specific tires I've used such as the Panaracer Gravel King SK's, and the Maxxis Ramblers. I ride about 50/50 dirt/pavement at 40/35 PSI, although for rides with more gravel, I'll probably reduce the pressure to 35/30. My overall experience with these tires has been very positive - easy to install tubeless on HED Belgium + rims, roll well on hard pack and pavement, good traction in soft dirt and mud. I do notice some tire noise at higher speed on pavement due to the tread. I suspect that this portends faster tread wear, if you do a lot of pavement riding at higher speeds. If that is the case you may be better off with tires with a smoother and perhaps more durable tread. But, you will be losing traction in the dirt. In my case, I have 2 wheel sets, one with pavement tires- 28 mm Schwalbe Pro-one's, and the other with gravel tires - G-One's. I've been very impressed with both tire sets. IMHO, I think that Schwalbe has nailed it in terms of tubeless tire tech.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 774
Reply with quote  #4 
Kind of on the same subject and then kind of not. How do you know when to add more Orange Seal Endurance to your tires? My Roker was set up middle of Dec. 2017 and non has been added since.

Thanks
Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 398
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
Kind of on the same subject and then kind of not. How do you know when to add more Orange Seal Endurance to your tires? My Roker was set up middle of Dec. 2017 and non has been added since.

Thanks
Zman


I do it in about 6 months (for 2 oz Orange Seal endurance).  That is when I notice the tires not holding air so well.  

But the G-Ones seem to hold air without sealant.  In that case, I could either do the 6 month rule, or use a dipstick (i.e. coffee stirrer stick).
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 398
Reply with quote  #6 
Tire wear:  I find the ramblers wore very fast.  I kind of like the smooth center when they wear, as I use it mostly as a winter tire it wears fast for something I don't use too much.

I typically use a slick in the rear and often a knobby in the front.  Anything with knobs in the rear is going to be prone to wear if ridden on hard surfaces (packed dirt, dry clay, asphalt) that is typical around here.   So far the G-Ones seem to be wearing fine.

Shoot, even my mountain bike tires wear fast if I ride them like my gravel bike.  Hard surface wears knobs...
0
Nothing-2-see

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Can you be more specific? How fast is "fast" here? What pressures are you running? What do you weigh? Where do you ride them? I have nearly 1k on a pair of G-Ones and the center nubs still have their dimples.


I took a look back and see that I must have had about 1300 miles on the G ones.  And I have about 750 on the MSO's.  

I run around 40-45 psi, and weigh 190, and ride 70% gravel, 30% pavement.

The center nubs on the g ones were definitely gone on the rear tire, it was done.

I basically don't feel tubed tires wore out as fast as either of these 2 different tubeless tires that I have run.  
Might be a placebo. 

Thansk 
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing-2-see


I took a look back and see that I must have had about 1300 miles on the G ones.  And I have about 750 on the MSO's.  

I run around 40-45 psi, and weigh 190, and ride 70% gravel, 30% pavement.

The center nubs on the g ones were definitely gone on the rear tire, it was done.

I basically don't feel tubed tires wore out as fast as either of these 2 different tubeless tires that I have run.  
Might be a placebo. 

Thansk 


I'm pretty similar weight and riding conditions. Usually under 35 psi unless it's pure pavement. Which tubed tires are you trying to compare them to?
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 774
Reply with quote  #9 
I weigh 200 lbs and run 40 in the rear and 35 in the front for all around riding including gravel. You might be seeing fast wear because of your tires being pumped up too much.

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
GHC

Member
Registered:
Posts: 74
Reply with quote  #10 
To OP regarding tire life ....I ride tubeless MSO's 700 x 36 low to mid pressure depending on gravel conditions, 1500 miles is max (as in, sometimes 300 less depending on conditions)I get out of the rear, 3 x that on the front.  Love these tires for gravel, particularly looser or soft stuff, but roll great on hard pan gravel too.   The MSO's will wear much faster on pavement, and based on similar experience to yours, the G'ones will last a little longer on gravel, and quite a bit longer compared to MSO's on pavement.   Everythings a trade off, I ride MSO's because they do better for me for the conditions I run into or may run into if the ride is unknown, but if I knew didn't need the more aggressive tread, or knew I would be riding more pavement, I might run something else. adding, when I am concrete trail riding in spring before the ice and soft shoulders are gone on gravel, I ride s ones on the pavement/concrete trails, so I don't burn my MSO's down.    

To Zman's question on when to add sealant.  I start with 2 to 2.5 oz's on 35-40 tires (orange seal or orange seal endurance, doesn't seem to matter....but I like having the endurance in them over the winter and spinning tires every other week) and rarely need to add any during the season before the tires shot, depending upon if have lost any due to punctures., these tires bead seal well without sealant on my rims at install.  But more generally, if you remove the valve core you can drop a dipstick to check depth of liquid sealant and see if you need to add any.    Easy peasy

Edit for tip .... my valve cores seem to get gummed up easier with the orange seal endurance (that's probably a positive for what its doing), and have found that 1) hanging up the bike or whatever after rides with the valves at 11 through 1 oclock helps with this a bunch, and 2) only add or take out air with valve stems top half helps as well.   I still need to use a plastic tool pick to pull dried sealant out of them every now and then though (or replace, they are cheap).

0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
How do you know when to add more Orange Seal Endurance to your tires?


Step 1) Hold the wheel next to your ear and shake it. If you don't hear any sealant, add 1oz.

Step 2) See Step 1.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 774
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Step 1) Hold the wheel next to your ear and shake it. If you don't hear any sealant, add 1oz.

Step 2) See Step 1.


I have a hereditary hearing loss so that might not work. Thanks though. I guess the dipstick it is

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 758
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
Kind of on the same subject and then kind of not. How do you know when to add more Orange Seal Endurance to your tires? My Roker was set up middle of Dec. 2017 and non has been added since.

Thanks
Zman

My $.02. I recently changed a few tires that were holding air well; but hadn't had an Orange Seal endurance re-fill in about 4 months. I was surprised at how little liquid sealant remained in the tires (Compass Bon Jon's and Gravel King SK's). I was lucky that I didn't puncture, because the sealant may have failed. Of course, a lot depends on how dry your humidity is, and your riding conditions. My conclusion is that you are better off adding sealant more frequently - approximately every 3-4 months - to avoid tire failure out in the boonies someplace. It's not that big a deal to add sealant to a tire that is already well seated; whereas an avoidable tire failure is well worth a few minutes effort to re-fill. Also, I'm now a believer in a hefty dose of sealant whenever you install a new tubeless tire; and more frequent re-fills during the tire's life.
0
Jeb

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 61
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh

My $.02. I recently changed a few tires that were holding air well; but hadn't had an Orange Seal endurance re-fill in about 4 months. I was surprised at how little liquid sealant remained in the tires (Compass Bon Jon's and Gravel King SK's). I was lucky that I didn't puncture, because the sealant may have failed. Of course, a lot depends on how dry your humidity is, and your riding conditions. My conclusion is that you are better off adding sealant more frequently - approximately every 3-4 months - to avoid tire failure out in the boonies someplace. It's not that big a deal to add sealant to a tire that is already well seated; whereas an avoidable tire failure is well worth a few minutes effort to re-fill. Also, I'm now a believer in a hefty dose of sealant whenever you install a new tubeless tire; and more frequent re-fills during the tire's life.


Finish Line now has a sealant that is supposed to last the life of the tire.

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/tubeless-tire-sealant/sealant
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 774
Reply with quote  #15 
Jeb thanks for that info. I looked at the link and looks pretty impressive. I guess my only thoughts are even though it says you will never have to scrub the latex off the rim like the other sealants does it seal up punctures as well? Have you tried it yet?

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #16 
Regarding the new Finish Line Sealant, I installed some in a pair of lightly used WTB Nanos a few weeks back. The sealant is really thick and Finish Line tells you to use nearly double what I consider normal. Of course I ignored it and only put in 2 ounces per tire since a WTB tire on a Stans rim and new rim tape should basically hold air without any sealant. One tire was flat in the morning and the other was soft.It turns out Finish Line was pretty serious about their recommendations.

At $15 for an 8oz bottle and 8oz being needed for two 40mm tires, that stuff better last the lifetime of the tire. Personally, I would rather save money and rotating weight by running less sealant and doing the annual scrape and refill.


0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 774
Reply with quote  #17 
Dangle I guess you mean by the annual scrape you mean when you have to change out tires. It will be awhile until I have to do that probably maybe late summer. I remember reading a thread about this but what has worked for you to get the sealant off the rim?

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 398
Reply with quote  #18 
good point about refils. 

If 2 oz is gone in 6 months, stands to reason that there would not be much left after 3-4 months.

As for lifetime - slime and others have always had lifetime sealants.  There are pros and cons to each.  I forget, the details, but I decided on the 6 month cycle.
0
Nothing-2-see

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


I'm pretty similar weight and riding conditions. Usually under 35 psi unless it's pure pavement. Which tubed tires are you trying to compare them to?


I had been running Clement MSO, but in 40mm.  I don't know if I have any way to look back and see what mileage I was getting out of them.

The main "general" question I am asking here is,
Same rider, pressure, conditions, would one expect to get different mileage out of a tubed vs tubeless version of the same tire?

Thanks again.
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing-2-see


I had been running Clement MSO, but in 40mm.  I don't know if I have any way to look back and see what mileage I was getting out of them.

The main "general" question I am asking here is,
Same rider, pressure, conditions, would one expect to get different mileage out of a tubed vs tubeless version of the same tire?

Thanks again.


The answer is no. The tread, rubber compound and generally the casing are not different. Usually some sort of liner to make the tire air-tight and a specific (better tolerances) tire bead that doesn't stretch (much) and has a better seal is the only difference. Your original post was asking why "X" happens faster than "Y" with nothing to support that X actually happens faster than Y. Performance oriented tires with tread/knobs don't last thousands of miles whether they are tubeless or not.
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
Dangle I guess you mean by the annual scrape you mean when you have to change out tires. It will be awhile until I have to do that probably maybe late summer. I remember reading a thread about this but what has worked for you to get the sealant off the rim?

Zman


Well, it's more a function of having a half dozen wheelsets and at least 8 pairs of tires for two cx/gravel bikes. It's rare a tire stays on a specific rim for an entire year. Probably not a 'common' problem to have.

There's really not much scraping to be done. The rim itself barely holds anything. Gravity mostly keeps it off the rim. You could wipe the tape/inner rim channel with a paper towel in 5.2 seconds and be done with it. Usually the tires will have some gunk stuck to them. I'll pick off any obvious clumps and leave the rest. They are likely what's keeping the tire airtight.

The Finish Line Sealant is probably a really good solution for somebody that has one set of tires and will run them until they are ready to be replaced. For somebody switching tires a lot, I would recommend they go the economical route of basic Stans or a DIY/create your own/homebrew that's been discussed to death on MTBR and other sites for low pressure applications. For road tires at higher pressures (I will arbitrarily call it 70psi or more) I have no experience with the new Finish Line stuff and would recommend something with lots of particles like Stans Race, Bontrager TLR, or Orange Seal.
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 398
Reply with quote  #22 
Agreed.  tubeless does not make a difference in tread mileage. 
Slick vs knobby makes a big difference on the road (less in the soft stuff)
Tread compound make a big difference
Rider weight and power make a difference
Road surface type makes a difference
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.