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BluesDawg

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Train
Can someone get a real width measurement on these with their rim width also? Very curious but i have a frame that may or may not fit them depending on the actual size. Thanks


Mine measure 43-43.5 mm on Stan's Iron Cross rims (21mm internal) running tubeless at 25-35 psi. They have been on for several months.
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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
Roveral could you possibly post while you like the Clement 40 cm tubed tires over the 36 cm MSO tubeless tires. I am so new to that I am getting way confused.  


It's been over a year and a half since I ran with the 40c tubed, they came stock on my bike so I used them a little.
My journeys are mostly paved, I'm not lucky enough to have gravel roads at my doorstep so I need to ride the blacktop to get to gravel or just ride the tar.
With the 40c tubed I liked the way they handled and road on pavement, they were a softer tire too and with being able to air them up to around 60-70 tubed they rolled pretty fast.

However several months before that I got a taste of tubeless with my other bike and with the many different tire offerings available I took them off to go TL.  I bought a set of Schwalbe G-ones and oh boy was I hooked. 

To sum it up I liked it better than the 36c clement mso because it rolled better on paved.
The 36 mso TL is a very good off road tire and an ok paved tire but I just don't like the way it rides on tar. 

A short history on tubeless ready tires. Up until about a year ago there was only 1 TL tire I can remember which was the WTB nano and it sold like hotcakes.. The nano is an excellent tire for off road stuff but not a good roller on the road it's slow.
One by one companies started to put out a TL tire and now there are many choices to go with which I think is great. 

With all these choices I and several others have managed to start a collection of tires and no whave a few favorites in the bunch.

And yes it was confusing to me at first but I sorted things out with practice and a lot of tires but it was worth it.
I would rank the 36 mso around 3rd or 4th in my lineup. 
  • Sawtooth 42c overall best
  • Schwalbe G-ones great tire would be #1 but I have fitting issues
  • Kenda FlintRidge Pro I would use if I raced or go tripping in rough stuff
  • Clement 36mso TL Decent overall tire Just don't like it for road
  • Schwalbe Almotion  Tubeless touring tire for the bucket list tour
  • Clement Strada Ush TL 32c Go fast skinny tire 
Check out Guitar Teds blog he is a tire testing Guru, I learn a lot from his ramblings and he has tested more tires than anyone I have ever read about except maybe Mr Goodyear.[smile]
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #53 
Thanks RoverAl

I could care less how a tire does on the road for me. I live about 6-7 miles from the mt. and gravel so riding that far doesn't bother me at all. I also have my race/road bike for that a 2006 Lemond Victoirre. It fits me like a glove. Curious as to why the Gravel King SK 36 isn't included in that  line up. I have devoured all the reports Ted Guitar has out there along with the owner of the website over at Gravel Cyclist. The kicker though from what I have read especially over at Gravel Cyclist they have so many set ups of tires that they take with them to the races/rides they can just swap them out for the conditions. They also have what looks like Companies supplying them tires to try out for the ride report. From what I have read they have their go to dry conditions hard pack tire and then they have what they call a wet conditions peanut butter tire. I also have read that if the conditions are wet aka peanut butter that you have to have lots of tire clearance to keep things from jamming up. I probably have to get an in between tire for tire clearance as I won't have the chance to take and extra set of tires with me or not just now for sure. If I really get into this no problem of sending an extra set of the wheels to the hotel. lol I keep reading as many ride reports as I see or can and seems like most people are racing on the Clement 36mso or the Gravel Kings SK 36's Thanks again my budget is somewhat limited right now but I will have some kind of tubeless tire on my bike to try and get ready for the Pony Express 120. Any clue how much clearance I would have if I went with the Sawtooth?



Zman

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #54 
The clements 36c sounds like they would suit your needs. The road dislike for me is subjective and some might  disagree so try them by no means am I saying they suck. I avoid muddy conditions so no experience with them there but they do grip well in most conditions I have ridden them.The Gravel King isn't on my list because I have not ridden nor own them the tires on my list I have experience with.. I think that site is sponsored by companies and get tons of gear to review that way.  GT discloses how he gets his products for review. 
I am the wrong person to listen to for racing advice "not my thing" I like non racing racing...
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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #55 
Zman, I just got back from my 3x's a week 20 or so mile workout, done in my urban environment. No gravel to be had and this is why I like the Sawtooth tires so much. I don't need a special tire to screw around on gravel or unpredictable surfaces the sawtooth does it all for me.  I found the right bike and tire combo for me without resorting to owning extra wheels and having to switch setups. When I know I will be in the outback all day I will choose accordingly and it's a "mere bag of shells", to pop off a set of tires and pop another set back on. It takes time dialing in a bike.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverAl
The clements 36c sounds like they would suit your needs. The road dislike for me is subjective and some might  disagree so try them by no means am I saying they suck. I avoid muddy conditions so no experience with them there but they do grip well in most conditions I have ridden them.The Gravel King isn't on my list because I have not ridden nor own them the tires on my list I have experience with.. I think that site is sponsored by companies and get tons of gear to review that way.  GT discloses how he gets his products for review. 
I am the wrong person to listen to for racing advice "not my thing" I like non racing racing...


Thanks yeah for sure they do disclose over at GT how they get their products and it looks like he buys everything. They do get a chance to try out more stuff than the average guy/person though. At my end I still luv the ultra stuff. You are right in that it takes awhile to get things dialed in. I have my race bike dialed in. My gravel bike not so much. I am not 100% sure I will like the long distance gravel riding. I am guessing I will though as I luv a challenge. If it doesn't work out for $799 I bought a really nice bike that I can cross train on and enjoy a different type of cycling for me. The previous bike was a Schwinn Highlander I think that I bought used 15+ years ago for $150 I believe. It was a step above a Wally world bike but just barely. Talk about wobble in a tire you should see my rear tire on that bike which is the same one that came with it years ago. [biggrin] My mt. biking ended when I won  a free pass here at a local ski resort and was riding by myself rode over to the expert side of the course and tried jumping a tree with out pulling the front wheel up. I did a nice face plant and barely made it out of the mt. They dug dirt out of my face for over a 1/2 hr. I still have that Polaroid pic laying around the house somewhere. So before this bike all I did was ride some during leaf peeper season and very little down on the C & O Canal once or twice. That ski resort no longer has their course open I guess because of liability issues. I did see that the Hilly Billy Roubaix in WV had the oldest rider finisher at 66 or 67 and of course I will be 67 next spring so hey why not go for it. [biggrin] I do want to go bike camping on the entire route of the Allegheny Passage and the C & O canal in the Fall in the future. I only wish I lived closer to the Midwest as that seems to be where all the gravel rides are. WV does have a few though.

Curious if you have hydraulic brakes or what I read some kind of TRP brakes on any of your bikes. Techy downhill stuff will be my weakness. Getting ready to go out and get in a 50 mile or so ride in the mt. Trying out a Camelbak for the 1st time even though they have a really nice mt. spring water running out of the mt. 1/2 way up.

Zman

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #57 
TRP is the brand, Spyre is the model, mechanical actuation and both the pads squeeze the rotor when you pull the lever as opposed to one pad moving. 

I enjoyed mtbkg for several years but being close to retirement age and getting bolder and bolder scraping trees going down Abyss and ridgeline on my 29er I decided to get a gravel bike and  have to say I really enjoy riding it. 
Sounds like a nasty crash on the mtn you had.

I had hydros on my mountain bikes and if the road hydros are anything like them I look forward to getting them. You can scrub speed with a tap tap. For now I am satisfied with what I have. No gnarly downhills for me. 
Florida has the weather but the landscape is boring and flat, the only hills you see are on golf courses. lol
Mountain spring water sounds good but I would filter it anyway you never know whats upstream. Have a good ride.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #58 
Rover AL a few questions.

I thought I saw somewhere where a rider didn't like the rotors that came with the TRP Spyre. I see you can buy them with rotors or without. I thought I also read where someone recommended 160 mm rotors on the front and only 140 mm rotors on the back. The rider also recommended Shimano Ice Tech rotors. If you were to buy a set  of these brakes to stop you on downhill techy descents what would you buy? What is the difference price wise between TRP Spyre and hydros?

People have been driving up that mt. for years to get that spring water for drinking water for their houses. 

Thanks
Zman

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #59 
Zman, if you look hard enough you will find pros and cons on just about any product out there. I have had zero issues with my rotors. 

Did you bed your brakes in? When disc brakes are new you need to bed them in and then performance gets better.  
Adjustment is easy on the TRP also just turn in the adjusting screw to bring the pads closer to the rotor.
I like 160 rotors cause the larger surface area, don't see any advantage with a 140.

Regarding which brakes I would get, just like you I would have to start researching because off the top of my head I don't know. Lots of options, names brands etc. 
This would be a good topic to post in the other section of the forum. You will get much more answers there. Also keep in mind this board has a very small base.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverAl
Zman, if you look hard enough you will find pros and cons on just about any product out there. I have had zero issues with my rotors. 

Did you bed your brakes in? When disc brakes are new you need to bed them in and then performance gets better.  
Adjustment is easy on the TRP also just turn in the adjusting screw to bring the pads closer to the rotor.
I like 160 rotors cause the larger surface area, don't see any advantage with a 140.

Regarding which brakes I would get, just like you I would have to start researching because off the top of my head I don't know. Lots of options, names brands etc. 
This would be a good topic to post in the other section of the forum. You will get much more answers there. Also keep in mind this board has a very small base.


Any thoughts or ideas how much different of a price between the TRP or hydros would be. Sorry I thought you had used hydros and didn't see that you hadn't

 
Zman

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #61 
=zman"Any thoughts or ideas how much different of a price between the TRP or hydros would be. Sorry I thought you had used hydros and didn't see that you hadn't"

I had hydros on my 29er mountain bike
Road hydros are somewhat new and a complete hydro system would include replacing your shifter set or going hydro mechanical.
Post this in other place you will get more results. Google is your friend on this one.



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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverAl
=zman"Any thoughts or ideas how much different of a price between the TRP or hydros would be. Sorry I thought you had used hydros and didn't see that you hadn't" I had hydros on my 29er mountain bike Post this in other place you will get more results. Google is your friend on this one.


I am great at googling but there is nuthin like somebody that has actually ridden TRP versus hydros to give you the best reviews. I did have a guy in at work today tell me there is no comparison.

Zman

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #63 
Exactly which is why I am recommending a separate post so you can find actual users.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverAl
Exactly which is why I am recommending a separate post so you can find actual users.



tks


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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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tacobellbiker

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Reply with quote  #65 
Slightly off topic but I recently swapped out my Sawtooths for 700x52mm WTB ThickSlicks. They just barely fit in my Sequoia.

First thing right away is that you realize how supple the Sawtooth sidewalls are. You kind of take it for granted if it's all you've been riding.

The ThickSlicks measure in at 52mm and offer a slower but more floaty feeling. It accelerates slower than the Sawtooth but actually feels faster rolling once at speed. They do feel wonderful on rougher gravel.

I've been getting away with running them at 17-18 PSI (with tubes), whereas I was scared to go much below 25 PSI on the Sawtooths.

Can't decide whether which tire I like better, it depends on the terrain I suppose.  20170706_231350.jpg  20170706_231424.jpg  20170706_231444.jpg  20170706_231450.jpg 

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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #66 
That's impressive  52 is a 2 incher.  I like this bike a whole lot. Come busy season it is definitely on my wish list.
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EagleGrinder

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Reply with quote  #67 
I just got a pair of Sawtooths and I am having a hard time with them setting up tubeless. 

Dumb question, I use my air compressor to pump the tire up, hear the pops then release all the air out of the tire. Is it normal for one part of the tire bead to "unseat"? Drove me crazy tonight thinking I was doing something wrong. For reference, I have the sawtooth gumwalls. Looks sweet on my Hydra rims oleritter set me up on. 

Thanks 
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tacobellbiker

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Reply with quote  #68 
EagleGrinder, did you swish the sealant around the tire a bit first?

The Sawtooth bead sometimes is a bit crinkled coming out of the box in the spots where it's folded. If you leave it out overnight in a round shape those crinks work themselves out usually. Or if you pump them up with a tube the crinks go away quick too.

And trying an extra layer of rim tape is worth a try too.

Sorry if these are obvious suggestions, I'm no tubeless expert but these tips have worked for me in the past.
 
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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #69 
Do you mean the tire unseats after you let the air out? If so that has occasionally happened to me. Is the tire very loose when it is seated without any air in it? 
Maybe another layer of tape might do the trick to tighten up a little.

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EagleGrinder

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Reply with quote  #70 
when I push all the air out, a small section will pop off the bead, but not the whole thing and its usually only on one side. It sits somewhat loose on the bead, but it takes some real effort to pry it off. Im gonna go for it today with the Orange seal and see how it goes. If not, ill either take it to the LBS and let them go at it or just stick a tube in there and be done with it.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #71 
I tried making a set of Clement 700 x 40 tires that weren't tubeless to go tubeless. The front worked really well. The back no so much as it had lots of small leaks around the rim. I did do the Stans shake that they had listed on here and that really helped some but not enough to make me happy. I also read where somebody left their tire up to 90 lbs psi for about an hr. and that seated their tire for them.

Good luck
Zman

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EagleGrinder

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Reply with quote  #72 
Figured it out this morning. I was deflating the tire all the way and it was naturally going to unseat in 1 area at least. Filled with Orange Seal (about 2-3 oz) and deflated to max psi (80). Did the funky chicken dance with the tire that made my neighbors shake their head and as of about 12 hours later its firmly holding at 65psi. Just needed some patience. 2Bliss lives up to the hype 

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goneskiian

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Reply with quote  #73 
Yes, this is common with tubeless tires. I like to do the same, seat them first with just air from a compressor, then let the air out and add the sealant. Some will hold air pretty well with no sealant, others, not so much. I can usually get them to air up with a floor pump once I've done the initial bead seat with a compressor though even if part of the bead comes off when I let the air out. The key here is to not rest them on the ground though. Keep them suspended somehow.

I haven't tried the Sawtooth yet but this has worked well for me on other Specialized tires (Trigger 38, Trigger 32, Tera 32, Roubaix 30/32, Renegade, Fast Track) as well as Compass (Snoqualmie and Bon Jon). 

Yes, I also usually have to do the shake to get the sealant to seal up all the leaks around the bead, with rare exceptions on mtb tires (Maxxis Ardent). 

Cheers!
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneskiian
Yes, this is common with tubeless tires. I like to do the same, seat them first with just air from a compressor, then let the air out and add the sealant. Some will hold air pretty well with no sealant, others, not so much. I can usually get them to air up with a floor pump once I've done the initial bead seat with a compressor though even if part of the bead comes off when I let the air out. The key here is to not rest them on the ground though. Keep them suspended somehow.

I haven't tried the Sawtooth yet but this has worked well for me on other Specialized tires (Trigger 38, Trigger 32, Tera 32, Roubaix 30/32, Renegade, Fast Track) as well as Compass (Snoqualmie and Bon Jon). 

Yes, I also usually have to do the shake to get the sealant to seal up all the leaks around the bead, with rare exceptions on mtb tires (Maxxis Ardent). 

Cheers!


Hey Goneskiian I don't have any experience gravel riding yet as this is all new to me and the stock tires on my bike are the Clement xplor mso 40mm non tubeless tires. I see you have tried lots of tires. I am trying to get my rig set up for the Pony Express on Sept 9th at Marysville Kansas. I was kind of set either on Clement Mso 38mm or Gravel King SK 38mm and leaning more towards the Clement making either one to go tubeless. Then over on the Nebraska vs Kansas thread MHoffman said most of the riders at Marysville Kansas where my ride/race is are using the Specialized Triggers 38mm which I never heard of before. Are the riders using them because they are a cheaper tire than the Clement's and Gravel King. I guess at my end I would probably go with a little bit heavier tire to be assured that I didn't get a flat but if most of the riders there are using the Triggers I guess they must be a good tire. Any  help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Zman

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goneskiian

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Reply with quote  #75 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


Hey Goneskiian I don't have any experience gravel riding yet as this is all new to me and the stock tires on my bike are the Clement xplor mso 40mm non tubeless tires. I see you have tried lots of tires. I am trying to get my rig set up for the Pony Express on Sept 9th at Marysville Kansas. I was kind of set either on Clement Mso 38mm or Gravel King SK 38mm and leaning more towards the Clement making either one to go tubeless. Then over on the Nebraska vs Kansas thread MHoffman said most of the riders at Marysville Kansas where my ride/race is are using the Specialized Triggers 38mm which I never heard of before. Are the riders using them because they are a cheaper tire than the Clement's and Gravel King. I guess at my end I would probably go with a little bit heavier tire to be assured that I didn't get a flat but if most of the riders there are using the Triggers I guess they must be a good tire. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Zman

Zman,
I haven't tried that many gravel tires actually. Some listed there are mtb tires (Renegade and Fast Track).

I really don't think you can go wrong with the GK's or the Clements. Although, I don't know know if the Clement Tubeless ready tires are available yet. Might be wrong though. Heck, the winner of the DK200 this year rode the GK SK 40's (that have recently been rebranded as 43's).

I chose the Trigger 38 because the team I ride with is sponsored by a Specialized shop and that tire was pretty much designed for 4 time Men's DK winner Dan Hughes and 2 time (?) Women's winner Rebecca Rusch when she rode for Specialized so I figure it would be a solid choice.

I would guess a lot of the Kansas folks ride the Trigger for this reason as well. The 38 Trigger is a totally different tire than the 33. It has a much thicker casing and a slightly raised center section for better rolling. Even with the thicker casing I still got a puncture though (that the Orange Seal sealed and held thankfully).

I think the Sawtooth would have been a better choice though because it's a faster rolling tire and with the dry conditions the extra volume of a 42 would have allowed me to run a tad lower pressure, and perhaps that would have kept me from puncturing. I ran the Trigger because I was worried about mud and the slightly smaller tire with side knobs allowed for more frame clearance. 


https://www.specialized.com/us/en/equipment/components/trigger-pro-2bliss-ready/117895

https://www.cxmagazine.com/specialized-trigger-pro-38c-2bliss-tire-review


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