The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello! I'm going to have a hard time deciding on the next bike and was hoping for a little direction maybe. I have a Fargo that I use for almost everything now. I want something a bit lighter and faster for gravel roads and occasional road riding, something comfortable to do a century on. I'm in Michigan and would be riding probably a 30/40/30 mix of rail trail, gravel roads and pavement.
I've narrowed it down to these. None of them are available local to try out first, so would have to be ordered. My bike before that was a Diverge, which I liked and I miss the quickness but these bikes get me a little more excited.

Surly Straggler
Jamis Renegade Expat
All City Space horse.
Salsa Warbird

Trying to stay under 2k. What do you think?
Thanks!
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 205
Reply with quote  #2 

I live in MI!  There are Salsa and Jamis dealers around me.  Not sure how they handle orders that are returned.  Depends I guess.

 

I thought a diverge was a little sluggish – I think it was the low bottom bracket that bothered me. 

 

For a new bike my first questions are:

What size tires do I want.  Do I need a range of sizes?

Do I expect it to be light and nimble, or stable and easy? (more roadie, or MTB like)

Do I care about  weight?

0
NoCoGreg

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 190
Reply with quote  #3 
IMHO - if the top priority is on feeling quick and fast then go for the lightest and most CX like bike.  If the budget won't support full carbon fiber (frame, fork, wheels, etc) then I would go for an entry level CF bike and plan to upgrade parts as they wear out.  Your Fargo is a great heavy duty go anywhere bike so for going fast on road & gravel I'd look for a CF CX (aka race) bike.  

The wheels and tires have a much larger impact on speed than any other component. Period.  Swapping tubeless tires is a PITA.  You may want to budget for two sets of wheels (28's for road and 38-ish for gravel).  Just a thot...

For long distance races the equation does change from what bike is "quickest" to which will be fastest. Vibration absorption saves energy.  Longer wheelbase will be more stable. Fatter tires will roll more efficiently if you're in deep gravel. 

Based on the bikes you listed, I'd be most interested in the Warbird and Renegade.  Just one man's opinion. :-)

Greg
 


0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
I live in MI!  There are Salsa and Jamis dealers around me.  Not sure how they handle orders that are returned.  Depends I guess.
 
I thought a diverge was a little sluggish – I think it was the low bottom bracket that bothered me.  
 
For a new bike my first questions are:
What size tires do I want.  Do I need a range of sizes?
Do I expect it to be light and nimble, or stable and easy? (more roadie, or MTB like)
Do I care about  weight?
 

I live in MI!  There are Salsa and Jamis dealers around me.  Not sure how they handle orders that are returned.  Depends I guess.

 

I thought a diverge was a little sluggish – I think it was the low bottom bracket that bothered me. 

 

For a new bike my first questions are:

What size tires do I want.  Do I need a range of sizes?

Do I expect it to be light and nimble, or stable and easy? (more roadie, or MTB like)

Do I care about  weight?



Thanks for the reply. I want to run at least a 40 tire. More roadie than MTB. I already lean towards the mtb side with the fargo. I looked at the diverge again the other day. I like how they have updated it, just not sure I'm that excited about specialized.
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCoGreg
IMHO - if the top priority is on feeling quick and fast then go for the lightest and most CX like bike.  If the budget won't support full carbon fiber (frame, fork, wheels, etc) then I would go for an entry level CF bike and plan to upgrade parts as they wear out.  Your Fargo is a great heavy duty go anywhere bike so for going fast on road & gravel I'd look for a CF CX (aka race) bike.  

The wheels and tires have a much larger impact on speed than any other component. Period.  Swapping tubeless tires is a PITA.  You may want to budget for two sets of wheels (28's for road and 38-ish for gravel).  Just a thot...

For long distance races the equation does change from what bike is "quickest" to which will be fastest. Vibration absorption saves energy.  Longer wheelbase will be more stable. Fatter tires will roll more efficiently if you're in deep gravel. 

Based on the bikes you listed, I'd be most interested in the Warbird and Renegade.  Just one man's opinion. :-)

Greg
 




Thanks! I don't want to go too racey, still want to be comfortable for long rides. Definitely leaning towards the Renegade at the moment and my shop carries them. I've been itching for a surly for a while, just worried the straggler will feel heavy.
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #6 
There's a 2017 Warbird in my size at a local shop for $1800. Right now I'm thinking that or the Renegade Expat.
0
NoCoGreg

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 190
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xfnord
There's a 2017 Warbird in my size at a local shop for $1800. Right now I'm thinking that or the Renegade Expat.

Comparing the two, tire/mud clearance is the same, geometry and fit are very close and both brands have good reputations. IMO the choice is in frame material, parts (drivetrain, brakes, etc) and preference (if any) on the LBS.   

Note the Jamis uses a BB-4000 which I believe is a threaded bottom bracket while the Salsa uses a press fit BB. Despite the performance advantages, I'm not a fan of PF bottom brackets (long rant), so I would confirm the BB type. 
0
Jim_H

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #8 
I understand the preference for threaded bottom brackets, but they too have their downsides.   

The 'issues' with Press Fit bottom brackets (i.e.creaking) can be overcome by using threaded adapters (depending on which crankset you use).  These are widely available and fairly easy to install.

I have four bikes with PF30's in them right now and have had no problems.   

I guess my feeling is, that everything else being equal, a threaded bottom bracket is nice to have, but I would put it very low on the list in terms of must haves for a new bike.  I would not let that be a determining factor in my choice of bikes.

These are some of the BB adapters I've used with good results.

Praxis:
https://praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/

Wheels Manufacturing:
http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bb-crank-adapters/bb-adapters.html

0
ljsmith

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 257
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_H
I understand the preference for threaded bottom brackets, but they too have their downsides.   

The 'issues' with Press Fit bottom brackets (i.e.creaking) can be overcome by using threaded adapters (depending on which crankset you use).  These are widely available and fairly easy to install.

I have four bikes with PF30's in them right now and have had no problems.   

I guess my feeling is, that everything else being equal, a threaded bottom bracket is nice to have, but I would put it very low on the list in terms of must haves for a new bike.  I would not let that be a determining factor in my choice of bikes.

These are some of the BB adapters I've used with good results.

Praxis:
https://praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/

Wheels Manufacturing:
http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bb-crank-adapters/bb-adapters.html



I hate pressfit.  It is a lame way for manufacturers to make a frame with a lower weight, and a lower cost.  Then they tell you it makes their frame stiffer.  In reality there is no noticeable benefit to the end user and the only one to benefit is the manufacturer.  I have two bikes that have a BB30 and a PF30, and I use the Wheels Manufacturing adapter BBs to prevent creaks.  They work great, but they are very expensive.  I can get a SRAM threaded BB for about $30 and the Wheels manufacturing BB is going to be at least $74 for the cheapest bearings.  Obviously its not a deal breaker for me, but when looking for frames, I prefer threaded BBs and external cable routing (don't get me started on that though).
0
teoblar

Member
Registered:
Posts: 20
Reply with quote  #10 
If your current ride is feeling 'sluggish' then I wouldn't blame the weight as much as the material and geometry.  Like some have said, a CX type bike will give you a good road feel and clearance for bigger tires (maybe not a full 40c, but close).  The shorter wheelbase on a CX bike (head tube angles and chainstay length) really effect the feel of a bike.  Carbon and aluminum will feel much different than steel, adding that zip you are craving.  Yes, there will be tradeoffs from a more comfortable 'adventure' bike, but I don't believe that there is one single do-it-all bike.  Thus, n+1; a bike for every situation.  Embrace the madness!

I also like the idea of having two wheelsets.  Maybe a carbon deepish set for the roads with some plump slick tires and a wider alloy set with knobbies for your off-road adventures.  When the budget gets crunched, putting my money towards wheels makes much more sense than blowing it all on a carbon frame.  Rotational mass, blah blah blah.

There are a lot of fans of Raleigh bikes on here.  They offer a really good value, nice designs, and leave you with extra money for wheels.  Personally, I find the RX line to be excellent on the road.  Happy hunting!
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
If your current ride is feeling 'sluggish' then I wouldn't blame the weight as much as the material and geometry.  Like some have said, a CX type bike will give you a good road feel and clearance for bigger tires (maybe not a full 40c, but close).  The shorter wheelbase on a CX bike (head tube angles and chainstay length) really effect the feel of a bike.  Carbon and aluminum will feel much different than steel, adding that zip you are craving.  Yes, there will be tradeoffs from a more comfortable 'adventure' bike, but I don't believe that there is one single do-it-all bike.  Thus, n+1; a bike for every situation.  Embrace the madness!

I also like the idea of having two wheelsets.  Maybe a carbon deepish set for the roads with some plump slick tires and a wider alloy set with knobbies for your off-road adventures.  When the budget gets crunched, putting my money towards wheels makes much more sense than blowing it all on a carbon frame.  Rotational mass, blah blah blah.

There are a lot of fans of Raleigh bikes on here.  They offer a really good value, nice designs, and leave you with extra money for wheels.  Personally, I find the RX line to be excellent on the road.  Happy hunting!


Thanks! What's the RX line? I've considered just buying a second wheelset for my fargo but thought it would be more fun to buy a second bike instead. 
0
teoblar

Member
Registered:
Posts: 20
Reply with quote  #12 
Raleigh, in addition to a slew of adventure type bikes, has a cyclocross line that includes the RX 1.0 (base build, alloy), RX 2.0 (upgraded build, also alloy), RXC (full carbon, higher end builds), RXW (an RX for the ladies) and the RXS (a single speed RX, used to be belt driven, now chain).

I'm not 1) a racer, 2) very young, 3) very supple, and I find the feel of the RX bikes suits me nicely.  Slightly more aggressive than the Warbird in the geo, but a good balance of zippy and stable. 

In full disclosure, I am trying to sell both a Warbird and an RX.  I love them both and will keep whichever one doesn't sell and be very happy about it.  If mine isn't your size or flavor, I would still highly recommend giving Raleigh a look.  (I also have an RXS which isn't going anywhere, love that bike!)
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
Raleigh, in addition to a slew of adventure type bikes, has a cyclocross line that includes the RX 1.0 (base build, alloy), RX 2.0 (upgraded build, also alloy), RXC (full carbon, higher end builds), RXW (an RX for the ladies) and the RXS (a single speed RX, used to be belt driven, now chain).

I'm not 1) a racer, 2) very young, 3) very supple, and I find the feel of the RX bikes suits me nicely.  Slightly more aggressive than the Warbird in the geo, but a good balance of zippy and stable. 

In full disclosure, I am trying to sell both a Warbird and an RX.  I love them both and will keep whichever one doesn't sell and be very happy about it.  If mine isn't your size or flavor, I would still highly recommend giving Raleigh a look.  (I also have an RXS which isn't going anywhere, love that bike!)


That RXM with the corporate discount looks like a great deal. How would a bike like this be on gravel for say 50-100 miles?
0
teoblar

Member
Registered:
Posts: 20
Reply with quote  #14 
You really have a thing for steel, eh?  Well, conventional wisdom would say that steel would feel better on a long stretch of the rough stuff vs. aluminum.  The different geo would likely get you some of the 'snap' that your current steel rides are lacking.  

Get thee to a Raleigh dealership, with haste!
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
You really have a thing for steel, eh?  Well, conventional wisdom would say that steel would feel better on a long stretch of the rough stuff vs. aluminum.  The different geo would likely get you some of the 'snap' that your current steel rides are lacking.  

Get thee to a Raleigh dealership, with haste!


No not totally, I'm still eyeballing that warbird!
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 205
Reply with quote  #16 
I have a stupid stiff aluminum bike.   But with 40mm tires, appropriate pressure, and good seat post - its nice and cush.   I kind of like a responsive frame, but you can tune anything to be cush.   Most new CX designs take 40mm tires (but not if the design is a few years old).

Ya need a new bike for this ride:  http://micoasttocoast.com/
That route looks like too much fun!!!
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
I have a stupid stiff aluminum bike.   But with 40mm tires, appropriate pressure, and good seat post - its nice and cush.   I kind of like a responsive frame, but you can tune anything to be cush.   Most new CX designs take 40mm tires (but not if the design is a few years old).

Ya need a new bike for this ride:  http://micoasttocoast.com/
That route looks like too much fun!!!


That's the ride that has been making me think of buying a new bike!
0
Smale Rider

Member
Registered:
Posts: 74
Reply with quote  #18 
All-City Cosmic Stallion is what you want. It’s basically a more modern upgraded version of regular space horse. It rolls larger tires than either the space horse or warbird. Thru axels (cosmic) vs QR (space). Nice threaded 68mm Bottom bracket (cosmic) vs BB86 (warbird). BB86 doesn’t play nice with 30mm spindles which is a majority of those “adventure” cranks use.

I understand that you don’t want to break that 2k limit, but for 600 more you genuinely get a bike that does everything that current gravel bike trends do.
0
teoblar

Member
Registered:
Posts: 20
Reply with quote  #19 
Plus, it has a bitchin' name.  Cosmic Stallion, it's like a porn title.
0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smale Rider
All-City Cosmic Stallion is what you want. It’s basically a more modern upgraded version of regular space horse. It rolls larger tires than either the space horse or warbird. Thru axels (cosmic) vs QR (space). Nice threaded 68mm Bottom bracket (cosmic) vs BB86 (warbird). BB86 doesn’t play nice with 30mm spindles which is a majority of those “adventure” cranks use. I understand that you don’t want to break that 2k limit, but for 600 more you genuinely get a bike that does everything that current gravel bike trends do.


Yea, that's a great looking bike for sure. I'm guessing availability isn't so good right now. I had called the lbs on a space horse and it's not available until JULY.
0
scottNU

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smale Rider
All-City Cosmic Stallion is what you want. It’s basically a more modern upgraded version of regular space horse. It rolls larger tires than either the space horse or warbird. Thru axels (cosmic) vs QR (space). Nice threaded 68mm Bottom bracket (cosmic) vs BB86 (warbird). BB86 doesn’t play nice with 30mm spindles which is a majority of those “adventure” cranks use. I understand that you don’t want to break that 2k limit, but for 600 more you genuinely get a bike that does everything that current gravel bike trends do.


I have a Cosmic Stallion and I think you will love it.  My last ride on the bike was early December.  The weather in St Paul has turned evil.  The ride was about 30 miles on road, gravel and single track.  It was awesome!  It wasn't too easy on the single track (that turned into mud) but still a ton of fun.  I was super confident on the gravel and quickish on the road.  

It's worth your time to check it out.
0
Marinerecon

Member
Registered:
Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xfnord
There's a 2017 Warbird in my size at a local shop for $1800. Right now I'm thinking that or the Renegade Expat.


What size bird?

0
2xfnord

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerecon


What size bird?



60
0
paupeter

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #24 
Gonna throw my hat in here - currently riding a 2013 Felt CX bike and gravel racing in MN. Not in the fastest group or second fastest, just racing my previous PRs.
I'm thinking of upgrading to something like a Jamis Renegade or Salsa Warbird - really what interests me is the longer wheelbase and potential for 40mm tires. Currently limited to 38mm with canti brakes.
I like the racey feel of the cx cockpit/frame. However, not sure it's really worth the extra $ for the Renegade or Warbird over a newer CX bike w/disc brakes & 40mm width.
Anyone been through this decision making process before? Not really interested in opinions but rather experience.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.