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vinuneuro

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Reply with quote  #1 
Best cycling news of the year.

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/04/shimano-debuts-ultegra-rx-rear-derailleur-with-a-clutch/
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Bike John

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Reply with quote  #2 
Besides Easter, what day is it? 🤔
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vinuneuro

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Reply with quote  #3 
Check out the link. I thought that too, but it's legit and being raced by Trek-Segafredo. On the other cycling news sites as well.
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hub

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Reply with quote  #4 
Shimano 1x road clutch derailleur - aprils fools joke
Shimano 2x road clutch derailleur - not a joke, real product

Ultegra RX: Medium cage, officially compatible with 11-28 to 11-34 cassette
Sram Force 1: Long cage 11-32 to 10-42 / Medium cage 11-26 to 11-36 / Short cage 11-26 to 11-28
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vinuneuro

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Reply with quote  #5 
Would be a cruel cruel joke if this isn't real.
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bikepunksondope

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Reply with quote  #6 

So if you really want a clutch derailleur fo a gravel bike what’s wrong with a mtb derailleur? I know you can’t really get the integrated shifters working but 95% if the time it doesn’t even bother me. I used a PAUL
adapter to get the trigger shifter up near the stem on my drop bars.

Also I reasoned that being a gravel/all-road bike that I would be putting it through some rough and dirty conditions regularly.. I figured a mtb derailleur would be more resilient and dependable.

I guess if you’re running 2x then having 2 trigger shiters on the tops of the bars would be unappealing.
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kklasman

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Reply with quote  #7 
Wolftooth Tanpan allows using mtb rear mechs with integrated shifters. I've got nearly 6000 miles on mine and am very satisfied with it. I'm running  and 44x30 crank, 11-40 11 speed with Shimano 105 11-speed brifters.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/tanpan
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Jeb

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kklasman
Wolftooth Tanpan allows using mtb rear mechs with integrated shifters. I've got nearly 6000 miles on mine and am very satisfied with it. I'm running  and 44x30 crank, 11-40 11 speed with Shimano 105 11-speed brifters.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/tanpan


Which rear mech are you running? Thanks for the info.
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kklasman

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb


Which rear mech are you running? Thanks for the info.


Shimano RD-M8000-GS.

I am outside of the recommended limits, and shifting the chaingring isn't perfect all the time, but it gets me the gear ratios I want so I'm satisfied. I probably should play with the clutch tension to see if that helps...I run it with the clutch off, as it's too stiff with it on.
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Pattersnap

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Reply with quote  #10 
The Ultegra RX rear derailleur is very real and officially released. We've updated our article with more details and pricing. 

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/shimano-ultegra-rx-road-clutch-rear-derailleur-mechanical-and-di2-52018/
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hub

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattersnap
The Ultegra RX rear derailleur is very real and officially released. We've updated our article with more details and pricing. 

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/shimano-ultegra-rx-road-clutch-rear-derailleur-mechanical-and-di2-52018/


I can agree with many comments under this article about remote clutch switcher
like mechanical and electronic switches (di2 Float iCD) for mtb suspension
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alembical

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Reply with quote  #12 
I am new to the clutch derailleur thing, so I apologize in advance for remedial questions, but I am interested in learning.

So, I don't really understand.  In a race like Paris-Roubaix, is the clutch engaged for the whole race, or do you manually adjust it for the cobbled sections?  Switch at half?  I would think the loss of drive train efficacy will kill any gains.  Seems like pros are all about efficiency, larger jockey wheels, ceramic bearings, etc...  Dropped chains seem relatively rare.  I raced a Ultegra equipped bike for cyclocross and don't think I dropped the chain once.  Sure, there is some bouncing and chain slap, but oh well.
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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #13 

I like this as a possible replacement to my eTap wifli : https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/ultegra-r8050-di2/RD-R8050-GS.html
What isn't specified is the total capacity of the new clutch derailleur. For example, my current eTap set up for gravel is a 46/36 CX 2x chainring and an 11-36 cassette. This setup requires a rear der with (46-36)+(36-11)= 10+25= 35 teeth. This exceeds the spec. on the wifli rear der. I make work by using a longer chain to accommodate the 46/36 front/rear combination; and adjusting the b-screw for adequate pulley clearance. But, the extra chain slack when running higher gears, does effect the shifting of the system. It works, but there is a noticeable delay in the shifting. 
What I really want to run for gravel is a 46/30 chainring set, with an 11-32, or even an 11-36. To do this the rear der. needs a minimum capacity 37 teeth for the 11-32, or for the 11-36 cassette, a capacity of 41 teeth. Does anyone know the maximum capacity of the new Ultegra medium cage "Shadow" der?
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vinuneuro

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Reply with quote  #14 
@bobknh The current gen Ultegra mid-cage rear derailleur has a total capacity of 39T. I'd expect this one to be able to be the same. Even the short-cage derailleur has 35T capacity.

http://productinfo.shimano.com/#/spec/2.3/ROAD/Rear%20Derailleur

@alembical They said the clutch in this derailleur costs 1W. I don't know how much a flailing chain costs but wouldn't be surprised if it's as much or more.
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #15 
I really hope this means Shimano will make 1x or SS levers.
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drwelby

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Reply with quote  #16 
With the max cog at 34 I suspect the answer to everyone's 1x dream is "not yet".

But who knows, if they debuted the RX at Paris Roubaix maybe they're sitting on a Dynasys drop bar lever for Sea Otter.
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #17 

http://www.gravelcyclist.com/videos/tinkering-101-shifting-big-gears-shimano-dura-ace-91009150-ultegra-80008050-derailleurs/

Good video of the new Shimano's 8 and 9 billion series playing well with an 11-36

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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh

I like this as a possible replacement to my eTap wifli : https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/ultegra-r8050-di2/RD-R8050-GS.html
W
hat isn't specified is the total capacity of the new clutch derailleur. For example, my current eTap set up for gravel is a 46/36 CX 2x chainring and an 11-36 cassette. This setup requires a rear der with (46-36)+(36-11)= 10+25= 35 teeth. This exceeds the spec. on the wifli rear der. I make work by using a longer chain to accommodate the 46/36 front/rear combination; and adjusting the b-screw for adequate pulley clearance. But, the extra chain slack when running higher gears, does effect the shifting of the system. It works, but there is a noticeable delay in the shifting. 
What I really want to run for gravel is a 46/30 chainring set, with an 11-32, or even an 11-36. To do this the rear der. needs a minimum capacity 37 teeth for the 11-32, or for the 11-36 cassette, a capacity of 41 teeth. Does anyone know the maximum capacity of the new Ultegra medium cage "Shadow" der?

I dug a little deeper on the Shimano web site. Although the exact capacity of the medium cage version isn't stated, the medium cage der. can run an 11-34 cassette, with a 16T chain ring difference. This means that the rear der. capacity is at least 39T. I also learned that the rear der. has an off/on switch which allows you to reduce or increase the spring tension depending on the gear set you are using --- lower tension for easier shifting with less demanding gear sets for normal pavement; higher tension for more demanding gearing for unpaved riding. Very nice! For me, the 11-34, with 46/30 chainrings would be nearly perfect for the kind of riding I do. Now, I'm waiting for Shimano to come out with a 46/30 road/gravel Hollow Tech crankset to complete my fantasy Di2 gear set!
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clarksonxc

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Reply with quote  #19 
+1 on the 46/30 HTII.... Shimano could stand to make a lot of sales on that crankset!
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B^2

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Reply with quote  #20 
this derailleur won't really be available until June but you should see it on some MY19 bikes which come out around the same time.
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runrideski

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Reply with quote  #21 
Myself and my partner just got his&hers gravel bikes (Kensuke model) from KindHuman a couple of weeks back.  We ordered them back in April, with full Ultegra (mechanical shifting, hydro disc braking) at around the time that the announcements for the Ultegra RX rear mech were surfacing.

The builder put an order in for these mechs straight away and, to our surprise and delight, they arrived just a few days before we planned to pick up the bikes.  After a couple fo weeks of riding, here is my initial review:

They work! 

.....now let me expand a bit [wink]...

We're both coming from cobbled-together cyclocross bikes, with a mish-mash of componentry.  She has been riding a 3x10 setup (Tiagara shifters and mechs, 50/39/30 paired with 11-32) and she has dealt with slow shifts and (annoyingly) dropped chains every ride.  I've been running 2x9 with 48/36 (SRAM) paired with 11-34, with shifting done by MicroShift dual-control levers (Nashbar branded).  Overall, shifting has been not great, dropped chains (both of us) and lots of chain-slapping in rough terrain.

Contrast this with the new Ultegra (she with 46/34 + 11-36, me with 46/36 + 11-34), with the new RX rear mech and....WOW!   Shifting is fast and precise, both front and back and the chain has been absolutely SILENT over the rough stuff (even bunny-hopping curbs etc..... I just cannot get the chain to contact the frame).  I've compared shifting with the clutch turned on vs off, and the difference in shifting effort is not even noticeable (at least on a brand new drivetrain). 

A bit off topic but I do notice a bit of lagging in my partner's shifting relative to mine, but:
-she is right on the limit (37t) of the rear mech's range,
-over the limit (34t) for the largest cog on the cassette,
-and has mismatched chainrings (i.e., outer 46t ring from the cyclocross gearing and inner 34t ring from compact road gearing.

with these compromised (which were done to match the easiest gear  on her last bike) in mind, she's still unbelievably happy with the quality of the shifting relative to her other bike.  

For a 2X gravel/cyclocross drivetrain (we hardly even contemplated going 1X, but that's a different topic altogether), my feeling is that Shimano has successfully addressed one of their most significant shortcomings, compared with SRAM 1X systems.  I imagine we will see a ton of Shimano-sponsored cyclocross racers using this system in the coming season!

Now if only I could find a (round) 48t chainring to fit our Ultegra cranks!






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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #22 
Nice review - thanks.  And about what I would have expected.  I have one ordered (eBay) and is enroute from Japan now - the Di2/805 version.  I'm running a 50/34 w/11-36 now and expect it to drop right in.  I used to get a lot of dropped chains with the mechanical Ultegra and still get a few w/Di2.  I expect the issue to be resolved w/the 805.
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chas

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Reply with quote  #23 

Nice write up!   That experience pretty much describes my old school short cage ultegra.  I'm thinking some of that is just from having a new drive train - mine is so precise and problem free.  I love snick-snicking through the gears.  I'm thinking the clutch is really needed for the long cage derailleurs but at least in my case the short cage has none of the problems we are trying to solve (knock on wood).

you really need a 48t chain ring?  I'm pulling hard over 40mph on 46x11.  

So glad you got those derailers just in time.  :-)

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runrideski

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSpoke
I'm running a 50/34 w/11-36 now and expect it to drop right in. 


I'm wondering, with such a broad range in gears (16+25=41t) will you have any issues with capacity, or do you just avoid using the smallest 2-3 cogs on the cassette when in the inner chainring?   

Regardless, the clutch should help reduce chainslap in these gear combinations, when the chain is both inherently slackest and also closest (in elevation) to the chainstay.
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runrideski

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
you really need a 48t chain ring?  I'm pulling hard over 40mph on 46x11.  


Yeah, I probably don't "need" a 48, as I've only found myself in the 46x11 once so far, which happened on a long road descent. 

As an aside, i'm still (very happily) getting used to the very close gaps in adjacent gears in the 'normally used' cogs in the 11-34 11-s cassette relative to my 11-34 9-sp cassette (see cogs highlighted in purple below.  In the 11-sp there are 5 cogs between the 17 and the 30, where only 3 cogs span this same gap in the 9-sp.  

11-34 9-sp: 11, 13, 15, 17, 20, 23, 26, 30, 34   

11-34 11-sp: 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 30, 34

Its sooo nice to switch up or down a cog and not be faced with a big change in cadence.  This may come from the roadie in me (which is rapidly dying), as I cut my teeth riding straight-block cassettes back in the day.  I guess its pretty evident why 1X drivetrains were never on the radar [biggrin]

 

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