The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 778
Reply with quote  #1 
I'm trying to remove an old 40 mm tubeless Maxxis Rambler from a HED Tomcat rim. I believe that the Tomcat is an OEM version of the Belgium. I had little difficulty in unseating and popping off the bead on one side of the rim with simple plastic tire levers. The bead on the other side of the rim however, appears to be stuck tightly between the rim and  the tubeless tape. I can't get a tire lever between the rim and the bead to lever it off. Since metal tools like a small screwdriver can easily damage a soft aluminum rim, I'm reluctant to use them to pry the bead away from the rim so that I can insert a plastic tire lever. Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions? One thing I thought of was to lay the wheel on the garage floor and stand on the tire. I've already extracted all of the old sealant, so I'm not worried about making a mess on my garage floor. I'm also thinking of purchasing a Park Tire Plier -- but it is an expensive tool; and I'm not sure if it would help in this situation.
0
RoverAl

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 493
Reply with quote  #2 
What’s worked for me sometimes is to wrap a rag or small terry towel around the bead and squeeze with both hands until it releases.. Allows for a better grip or try some gloves and use your hands like that. I’ve also had the most success when starting at the valve position.
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 778
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverAl
What’s worked for me sometimes is to wrap a rag or small terry towel around the bead and squeeze with both hands until it releases.. Allows for a better grip or try some gloves and use your hands like that. I’ve also had the most success when starting at the valve position.

Thanks Al - not sure how that would work though. The bead is already off the rim on the other side. Squeezing would just move the bead that is already off the rim. But, maybe with a towel wrapped around the tire, I can get a better grip and pry it lose?
0
Alan_D

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #4 
I have had trouble getting getting some of my tubeless tire beads loose from two different models of WTB alloy MTB rims. The solution that I came up with was to lean the wheel against a 2x4” wood stud of an unfinished basement wall. Then press a loose 2x4” piece of wood on the bead I am trying to pop loose. This has been working for me without damage thus far to either rims or tires.
0
LewisQC

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 110
Reply with quote  #5 
lay the wheel on it's side (with the stock bead on top) and press down on the tire with your foot. I've used this method with mtb and fat tire so maybe give it a try
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 778
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisQC
lay the wheel on it's side (with the stock bead on top) and press down on the tire with your foot. I've used this method with mtb and fat tire so maybe give it a try

Thanks LewisQC - That method worked! I also think that Alan_D's suggestion would work as well; and might be preferable if there was still a lot of sealant in the tire.
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #7 
I had this happen recently with Enve M60's with a WTB Resolute (front) and a Vittoria Terreno (rear).  I used a bench vise to squeeze the tire off at the bead, freeing up one side of the tire.  After that, I used Beanpole Matt's (from JRA on Mountain Bike Radio) method of using a large flat-tip screwdriver.  You don't wedge the blade under the bead and pry like a tire lever; you stick it in between the tire bead and the rim's bead seat and twist like you're screwing in a woodscrew.  The rim was not damaged at all, but there were some abrasions on the rubber which coats the kevlar bead of the tire.  IMO the kevlar is intact, but I will monitor it to see if it becomes worse.  I don't think I ruined the tire but it is definitely no longer in pristine conditon!
I have installed and removed tons of tubeless tires/rims, and I have NEVER had that much trouble before.  If I had a problem at LandRun I would've had to DNF; they were that hard to remove.  I attribute this issue to the fact that they came with two layers of Gorilla Tape instead of regular tubless rim tape.  I removed that and installed regular rim tape from November Bikes.  I have had an easier time since then, but in fairness I haven't tried the WTB's or Vittoria's again.  I will report back when I have some time to mess with those specific models.
0
teoblar

Member
Registered:
Posts: 39
Reply with quote  #8 
Would applying a gentle heat, like with a hairdryer, help soften the adhesion?  Not enough to melt things, mind you, but enough to re-liquify whatever has dried up and seized up in there.
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoblar
Would applying a gentle heat, like with a hairdryer, help soften the adhesion?  Not enough to melt things, mind you, but enough to re-liquify whatever has dried up and seized up in there.


I didn't try this, but I'll give it a go next time if I have to, thanks for the suggestion.
What concerns me more is having a flat out on the road or trail, miles from help.  It's all well and good standing inside the house, with the bailout of taking it to the shop at the forefront of my mind!
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 778
Reply with quote  #10 
Post script. Since this posting, I've used the lay the wheel on the floor and step on the old tire routine a few times with good results. On one tire, after removing one bead from the rim, I had difficulty getting the other bead to release with the "Mexican Hat Dance" method. I then used my bench vice, as suggested, to grip the tire, and just twisting the wheel with the tire tightly griped in the vice, broke the other bead from the rim. Once you get it started, it is relatively easy to free the rest of the bead - even without tire levers. Thanks for all of the suggestions.
0
GHC

Member
Registered:
Posts: 97
Reply with quote  #11 
if the tires are toast, suppose a knife and pull would work to, but would be more dangerous.
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 778
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHC
if the tires are toast, suppose a knife and pull would work to, but would be more dangerous.

I once had a Bontrager TLR road tire installed on a Bontrager TLR rim. This tire was almost impossible to remove. I desperation I tried cutting the tire off. You'll be amazed how hard it is to cut an Aramid beaded tire. I guess thats why they use Aramid in bullet proof vests. BTW, I finally got the tire off by leaving it outside on a hot sunny day. The heat from the direct sunlight softened the tire enough, that I could remove it with plastic levers. I haven't tried it, but as another poster suggested, a hair dryer might do the job as well.
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarksonxc
I had this happen recently with Enve M60's with a WTB Resolute (front) and a Vittoria Terreno (rear).  I used a bench vise to squeeze the tire off at the bead, freeing up one side of the tire.  After that, I used Beanpole Matt's (from JRA on Mountain Bike Radio) method of using a large flat-tip screwdriver.  You don't wedge the blade under the bead and pry like a tire lever; you stick it in between the tire bead and the rim's bead seat and twist like you're screwing in a woodscrew.  The rim was not damaged at all, but there were some abrasions on the rubber which coats the kevlar bead of the tire.  IMO the kevlar is intact, but I will monitor it to see if it becomes worse.  I don't think I ruined the tire but it is definitely no longer in pristine conditon!
I have installed and removed tons of tubeless tires/rims, and I have NEVER had that much trouble before.  If I had a problem at LandRun I would've had to DNF; they were that hard to remove.  I attribute this issue to the fact that they came with two layers of Gorilla Tape instead of regular tubless rim tape.  I removed that and installed regular rim tape from November Bikes.  I have had an easier time since then, but in fairness I haven't tried the WTB's or Vittoria's again.  I will report back when I have some time to mess with those specific models.


Just to follow up on this saga - after removing the Gorilla tape and using the November roll, I have installed and removed a few different types of tires.  I went back to my LandRun setup for the Farmers Daughter Gravel Grinder weekend before last, and they went on/off like a breeze.  So even with the tubeless Enve rims and tubeless WTB/Vittoria tires, the rim tape made all the difference in the world.
Also, I was happy to see that I didn't damage the bead of either tire during my first difficult removal process.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 906
Reply with quote  #14 
Never tried this as I have yet to switch out tires. Why couldn't you let the tire lay out in the hot sun to warm it up some?

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #15 
It was inside my house when I tried, so around 70 degrees, and it was also late March so there was no hot sun to be found!  Besides, if you get a flat at an event you most likely won't have time to wait around for the tire to soften.
What ended up happening was the gorilla tape adhered to the tire bead.  This adhesion, combined with the already tight bead to bead seat force, made the tire nearly impossible to remove.  Since I swapped over to normal rim tape, there is no longer any adhesive factor to work against.  Only the normal beat seat force of the rim against the tire.  This made it easy enough to pop off by hand.  And when I saw pop off, I mean push the tire bead off the rim's bead seat and down into the center channel.  Once the entire tire bead is down in the center channel, there is more than enough space to fit a tire lever in.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 906
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarksonxc
It was inside my house when I tried, so around 70 degrees, and it was also late March so there was no hot sun to be found!  Besides, if you get a flat at an event you most likely won't have time to wait around for the tire to soften.
What ended up happening was the gorilla tape adhered to the tire bead.  This adhesion, combined with the already tight bead to bead seat force, made the tire nearly impossible to remove.  Since I swapped over to normal rim tape, there is no longer any adhesive factor to work against.  Only the normal beat seat force of the rim against the tire.  This made it easy enough to pop off by hand.  And when I saw pop off, I mean push the tire bead off the rim's bead seat and down into the center channel.  Once the entire tire bead is down in the center channel, there is more than enough space to fit a tire lever in.


I understand the about the event/ride thingy. Sure hoping I don't have a flat out on a race or if I do I don't have some of the trouble some of you are having to get a tire off. Here is my question though. If you are going to put a tube in don't you only have to pop the one side loose which shouldn't be that hard?

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #17 
So for my situation both beads were equally stubborn, which was unusual.  I used my bench vise to squeeze off the first bead, and a large flat tip screwdriver to twist off the second.
After the initial adhesion was broken, overcoming the tight bead seat wasn't any harder than any other tubeless setup I've dealt with.
And going to the regular rim tape solved all my problems - so as long as I stay away from Gorilla Tape I'm set!
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.