The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 376
Reply with quote  #1 
So after this weekend and riding the Maple City Century I dropped back to the metric ride. I walked 5-6 hills/mts at least. I bought the Tamland 1 as a starter bike and figured if I didn't like gravel racing I only forked out $800. I thought I would love gravel riding/racing and yes I do. The Tamland weighs 25.1 without pedals in 56 cm. I spent 3-4 hrs at least tonight looking over specs but after awhile since I am not the techy guy it all looks like a blur. It might come down to which one is the best deal for me or I see that the Jamis had capabilities of 3 water bottles which is a big deal for me. The other issue is that the bike will have to weigh under 20 lbs or I won't buy it. I see right away that the Haanjo sets up higher on the stand over so I would have to order a 53 cm versus what looks like 56 cm in the other 2. Throw some stats out there and maybe somebody can look at the components on the bike and see if there is a big difference in any of the 3.

will list the stats as follows

My Tamland
Roker Comp
Jamis Renegade Expert
Diamondback Haanjo Comp Carbon

Stand over height
T 800 MM 56 CM
R 805 MM 56 CM
J 808 MM 56 CM
D 808 MM 53 CM

Reach
T 383 MM
R 381 MM
J 387 MM
D 371 MM

Stack
T 581 MM
R 586 MM
J 595 MM
D 570 MM

Wheel base
T not listed but looks to be 1040 - 1043 mm
R 1040 MM
J 1042 MM
D 1025 MM

Chain stay length
T 440 MM
R 440 MM
J 430 MM
D 430 MM

BB Height
T 75 MM
R 75 MM
J  72 MM
D 70 MM

Fork offset
T 50 MM
R 52 MM
J  53 MM
D 45 MM

Head Angle
T 71 DEG.
R 71.5 DEG.
J 71.5 DEG.
D 70.0 DEG.

Seat Angle
T 73 DEG.
R 73 DEG.
J 73 DEG.
D 73.5

Crank lengths look all to be the same 172.5 but the Jamis isn't listed and has  top effective(569) mm what is that?

I see heat tube length and top tube length but don't understand that much I have read about people cutting the length off their steerer but not sure which one that is

Heat tube length
T 135 MM
R 155 MM
J 176.7 MM
H 155 MM

Top tube length
T 560 MM
R 560 MM
J I think this is the top effective now 569
D 540 MM

If I am reading these stats right it looks like the Haanjo is more race set up with the shorter wheel base lower stack but don't know how to read the lower fork offset. Any help figuring out these stats would be helpful. From what I can see the Roker is closer to my now Tamland but I have no comparison as my old mt. bike a Schwinn was a slight step up from a Walmart bike. I might like a snappier bike than my Tamland What I think is the Haanjo is more race ready but how much comfort are you giving up over say a 100 150 or 200 mile ride/race. I don't think I would have to ride the Roker but maybe a test ride on the Jamis or Haanjo might help. Does anybody see anything different in the components that one stands out better/higher grade?

Bottom bracket height doesn't matter as I won't be doing mt biking with it. Maybe I could get lucky and somebody has actually ridden 2 of the bikes.


Thanks
Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #2 
Don't over-analyze the geometry. First, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the reach numbers on the Diamondback are incorrect. There's no possible way they are that small, especially given the top tube and seat angle measurements which look more in line with 'normal' geometry. Diamondback is really screwing themselves by having the frame reach numbers (probably the most important number) being wrong.

All of those 3 bikes are good. I would just pick the components you MUST have and the color you like the most. One thing about the Haanjo Comp Carbon is that it has mechanical disc brakes. I don't think I could ever go back to non-hydraulic brakes. The jump to the Haanjo Trail Carbon gets you full hydraulic brakes, very nice (and fast) tires, mostly Ultegra vs. 105, and a marginally nicer crank. I'm a big 1x fan, but there's no reason to abandon the idea of a 2x bike. Swapping the 36 small ring to a 34 and putting a different cassette on the back (11-34 or 11-36) would give a super low gear range and stay within the specs we know work for a 2x system using a GS road derailleur.

Is stand over really important to you? It's a tall frame, but I can't say I would ever look at stand over height when choosing a frame.

BTW - The Haanjos all have a 3rd bottle mount under the top tube. Also, for the money, I think the Haanjo Comp is the best specced bike for the money. Huge range cassette, great tire clearance and a fantastic spec. Apex 1 works really well. Over time you could probably swap out a few parts to save weight.......it may not be a significant upgrade from your current ride though.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 376
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle
Don't over-analyze the geometry. First, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the reach numbers on the Diamondback are incorrect. There's no possible way they are that small, especially given the top tube and seat angle measurements which look more in line with 'normal' geometry. Diamondback is really screwing themselves by having the frame reach numbers (probably the most important number) being wrong.

All of those 3 bikes are good. I would just pick the components you MUST have and the color you like the most. One thing about the Haanjo Comp Carbon is that it has mechanical disc brakes. I don't think I could ever go back to non-hydraulic brakes. The jump to the Haanjo Trail Carbon gets you full hydraulic brakes, very nice (and fast) tires, mostly Ultegra vs. 105, and a marginally nicer crank. I'm a big 1x fan, but there's no reason to abandon the idea of a 2x bike. Swapping the 36 small ring to a 34 and putting a different cassette on the back (11-34 or 11-36) would give a super low gear range and stay within the specs we know work for a 2x system using a GS road derailleur.

Is stand over really important to you? It's a tall frame, but I can't say I would ever look at stand over height when choosing a frame.

BTW - The Haanjos all have a 3rd bottle mount under the top tube. Also, for the money, I think the Haanjo Comp is the best specced bike for the money. Huge range cassette, great tire clearance and a fantastic spec. Apex 1 works really well. Over time you could probably swap out a few parts to save weight.......it may not be a significant upgrade from your current ride though.


Dangle here is where I am at and then maybe you can help me. My Tamland has some pretty decent components on it. The kicker is the starting weight of it is 25.1 lbs without pedals for a 56 cm frame. Add pedals/tools/trunk bag/2 water bottles/and a frame bag with food and now you are talking probably 28-30 lbs. That makes for a tough climbing bike. The bike I want to buy is/should/will be right around 20 lbs. or a hair over is what I want to buy. If I remember right Shoota on here spent some bucks to get his bike(Tamland) 2 lbs. lighter and felt maybe in the end that it wasn't worth the cost. This is why I am looking for a carbon or ti bike but want to get the best bang for the buck in a bike. Now too concerned if the components are much better but just wanting a lighter bike. I have lots to learn yet gravel riding/racing. I thought the stand over height was very important as if you run into an emergency situation you want to be able to touch the ground easily with your feet. I though that would b difficult if the stand over height was too high and you couldn't touch the ground while sitting on the seat. The Hanjo stand over height does look taller than the other 2 as the 53 cm is the same as the others in 56 cm.

Color is no big deal/deal breaker for me as I haven't really seen a gravel bike that wows me. It' going to have dirt/dust etc. on it so no biggie about the color.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #4 
I wouldn't get too worried about weight, especially for what you're talking about. Frame weight is the most expensive place to lighten up as well. A 20lb gravel bike in a 56 is not easy to do without spending a bit of money. If anything, maybe try new wheels and tires for now. That's easily where you will feel the most return for the money and you can transfer them to a new bike if you ever go down that road.

I own a couple John Neugent wheelsets that I'm very impressed by for the money. There's a couple wheelbuilders on this forum that really know their stuff and could make exactly what you're looking for at a decent prize. I know you're a fan of the Kenda Flintridge, but every Kenda tire ever tested has about the worst rolling resistance of any tire out there. The rubber compound dictates that and I highly doubt they are using a different rubber compound for their gravel tires than their mountain or road bike tires that test horribly. I have no problem estimating that you could be ~1mph faster going from a Kenda Flintridge to a Schwalbe G One Allround in the same size (assuming the Flintridge is using the same rubber and puncture belt as their road or mountain bike tires. Schwalbe says their G Ones use their super fast OneStar rubber). When the G One Bite starts shipping, it could be a fantastic choice for having a bit more grip and crazy fast rolling speed. 

Maybe try dropping a pound of wheel weight and increasing rolling speed first? I'm fairly sure the Tamland and my RXS came with the same (or very similar) wheels and mine weigh a hair under 2000 grams. Look at wheels and tires now. If you still have the itch to upgrade the frame and components later, at least you'll have a screaming fast wheelset to add to it. Any builder can do 'convertible' hubs, so you should be good to go for any standards over the next few years.
0
jeredb

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #5 
I own a Roker with 105 and hydro disc. It is my favorite bike in my quiver if 7. It does everything reasonably well. However there is some talk that Raleigh are abandoning the gravel market (except for the tamland) to focus on Ebikes... not sure if true or not. That being said a buddy is riding the Hanjo with hydro discs and I have a high level of bike envy. The fact that he can run giant 650b tires is really nice! I haven't tried to fit his 650 wheelset in the Roker yet... on the downside he ripped an insert out of the fork on a bikepacking trip and Diamondback is telling him they will not warrantee the fork. The bike is under a year old, so that is total BS on the part of Diamondback.

Both bikes will be very difficult to get under 20lbs! My Roker has a very nice sub 1500gram wheelset I built for it (hope rs4 centerlocks and H+son hydra rims with tubeless Ramblers), it and the compact FSA K-light crank, and Easton EC70 bars. It is nowhere near 20lbs, maybe 21lbs on a good day... spending on a quality custom wheelset will completely change the bike and is the first thing I change on all of my bike!

That is my POV having been around both bikes extensively.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 376
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeredb
I own a Roker with 105 and hydro disc. It is my favorite bike in my quiver if 7. It does everything reasonably well. However there is some talk that Raleigh are abandoning the gravel market (except for the tamland) to focus on Ebikes... not sure if true or not. That being said a buddy is riding the Hanjo with hydro discs and I have a high level of bike envy. The fact that he can run giant 650b tires is really nice! I haven't tried to fit his 650 wheelset in the Roker yet... on the downside he ripped an insert out of the fork on a bikepacking trip and Diamondback is telling him they will not warrantee the fork. The bike is under a year old, so that is total BS on the part of Diamondback. Both bikes will be very difficult to get under 20lbs! My Roker has a very nice sub 1500gram wheelset I built for it (hope rs4 centerlocks and H+son hydra rims with tubeless Ramblers), it and the compact FSA K-light crank, and Easton EC70 bars. It is nowhere near 20lbs, maybe 21lbs on a good day... spending on a quality custom wheelset will completely change the bike and is the first thing I change on all of my bike! That is my POV having been around both bikes extensively.


jeredb You are at least correct in that Raleigh isn't bringing out the Roker for 2018. I heard that direct from a Raleigh Rep. when I inquired about the Roker not showing up on their Corporate website. He did say that there was still going to be one last production run for 2017 so I am hoping I can still get a bike.  My Tamland 1 weighs 25.1 without pedals and no way I could get that down to 21 lbs. The BS your buddy received from Diamonback on the warranty issue would be enough to steer me away from that bike.

Thanks
Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
jeredb

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #7 
I believe Diamondback and Raleigh are owned by the same holding company so... realistically their warranty policies would be VERY similar... the DB with the gaping hole where the torn out fork mount was lasted 3 days riding around Steens Mountain in SE Oregon and bombed downhill at 40mph fully loaded over gnarly washboard... obviously the mount isn't structural, but Diamondback should own up to making a crummy mounting point!

True the tamland will never touch 20lbs, but before buying another bike demo an AMAZING light wheelset with a super light tubeless setup and dare I say sapim bladed spokes (love the spring and spice they add to a wheelset) this MAY drop rotational weight enough to really bring the steel to life! Seriously...

I just used the Roker to race CX tonight, love it, did a 60 mile mixed road/gravel ride in the Ramblers this week, loved it. I have the crappy stock wheelset running some 28c Hutchison sector 28s faster road rides, totally changes the bike and lastly for winter I run the 40c tires and fenders that would cover a 2.1 (cut to fit, but I don't get wet). Honestly the bike is amazing.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 376
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeredb
I believe Diamondback and Raleigh are owned by the same holding company so... realistically their warranty policies would be VERY similar... the DB with the gaping hole where the torn out fork mount was lasted 3 days riding around Steens Mountain in SE Oregon and bombed downhill at 40mph fully loaded over gnarly washboard... obviously the mount isn't structural, but Diamondback should own up to making a crummy mounting point! True the tamland will never touch 20lbs, but before buying another bike demo an AMAZING light wheelset with a super light tubeless setup and dare I say sapim bladed spokes (love the spring and spice they add to a wheelset) this MAY drop rotational weight enough to really bring the steel to life! Seriously... I just used the Roker to race CX tonight, love it, did a 60 mile mixed road/gravel ride in the Ramblers this week, loved it. I have the crappy stock wheelset running some 28c Hutchison sector 28s faster road rides, totally changes the bike and lastly for winter I run the 40c tires and fenders that would cover a 2.1 (cut to fit, but I don't get wet). Honestly the bike is amazing.


You know jeredb they say n+1 is the number of bikes you should own with N being the number of bikes you already own. I bought the Tamland for $799 + $49 tax not knowing if I would love gravel racing or not but expecting that I would but if not the price I could live with. If I only raced in Kansas the bike would be fine but here in the East Coast the bike is just too heavy. The only way I will buy the bike though is if I can get it at the Corporate discount like I bought the Tamland though. Thanks for the info though.

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
keepamonte

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #9 
I have the Jamis Renegade Expert and I can tell you there is no way you can get her to under 20lbs!  Mine weighs in at 22 on the dot with a ton of mods.  1X11  EC90SL crankset, XTR DI2 rear derailleur, Easton EC 70 Carbon cockpit, and a set of Reynolds ATR Carbon hoops.  That being said, I love the ride and have no  regrets!  This was after Dirty Kanza 100 this past summer.


IMG_0138.JPG 

0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepamonte
I have the Jamis Renegade Expert and I can tell you there is no way you can get her to under 20lbs!  Mine weighs in at 22 on the dot with a ton of mods.  


Off topic, but that's a nice build keepamonte. Some great component choices and it's nice to see a 'gravel' bike here without a mountain of spacers under the stem. How's the handlebar working for you? I had the same one and found it a little stiff. I'm back on the 3T Ergoterra Pro (aluminum) which *feels* smoother. It's so dang subjective though.
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 376
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeredb
I believe Diamondback and Raleigh are owned by the same holding company so... realistically their warranty policies would be VERY similar... the DB with the gaping hole where the torn out fork mount was lasted 3 days riding around Steens Mountain in SE Oregon and bombed downhill at 40mph fully loaded over gnarly washboard... obviously the mount isn't structural, but Diamondback should own up to making a crummy mounting point! True the tamland will never touch 20lbs, but before buying another bike demo an AMAZING light wheelset with a super light tubeless setup and dare I say sapim bladed spokes (love the spring and spice they add to a wheelset) this MAY drop rotational weight enough to really bring the steel to life! Seriously... I just used the Roker to race CX tonight, love it, did a 60 mile mixed road/gravel ride in the Ramblers this week, loved it. I have the crappy stock wheelset running some 28c Hutchison sector 28s faster road rides, totally changes the bike and lastly for winter I run the 40c tires and fenders that would cover a 2.1 (cut to fit, but I don't get wet). Honestly the bike is amazing.


jeredb So I see Raleigh was true to their word and must have run another production of the Roker's I see they dropped the price from $2799.99 to $1739.99. Do you remember what you paid for you Roker at the Corporate price?

Can you tell me what size frame you have and whether or not you weighed it before putting pedals on it?


Thanks
Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
Shaun McNally

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #12 
Don't mean to Bogart your topic, but I've been looking at the Hanjo trail carbon myself.....my issue is that I do two triathlons a year, I just put on road 28's and clip on aero bars on my current gravel bike. Can I put road 28's on the Hanjo wheelset for those 2 events a year?
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun McNally
Don't mean to Bogart your topic, but I've been looking at the Hanjo trail carbon myself.....my issue is that I do two triathlons a year, I just put on road 28's and clip on aero bars on my current gravel bike. Can I put road 28's on the Hanjo wheelset for those 2 events a year?


Yes. A HED rep said those wheels are good for at least 90 psi. 28's at 2/3 of that pressure would be great. They will probably measure over 30mm though if that matters. Double check to make sure there are at least two layers of rim tape on there if you go that high.
0
keepamonte

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Off topic, but that's a nice build keepamonte. Some great component choices and it's nice to see a 'gravel' bike here without a mountain of spacers under the stem. How's the handlebar working for you? I had the same one and found it a little stiff. I'm back on the 3T Ergoterra Pro (aluminum) which *feels* smoother. It's so dang subjective though.


I don't find it stiff per-say, feels similar to my road carbon bars (Enve) just fatter and different hand placement options.  Maybe a subtle road dampening?  
0
coffee

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #15 
I love my Haanjo Carbon Comp. I'm just a bit over 5'11", bought the medium, and it fits me perfectly. The reach and stack are ideal for me.

I did make some replacements:
  • The stock aluminum seatpost was swapped out for a carbon one (for more flex).
  • The stock cro-moly railed seat was swapped out for a hollow ti rail seat (for more flex).
  • The stock small front 36T chainring was swapped out for a 34T (for a lower climbing gear)
  • The stock HED wheelset was swapped out for a set of Mason x Hunt 4 Seasons. (to drop 300 grams off the wheelset)
  • The stock 6 bolt TRP rotors (160/160) were swapped for centerlock Shimano IceTechs (160/140) (weight and cooling)
  • The stock 38C Schwalbe G-Ones were swapped for 32C Vittoria Terreno Drys (I LOVE these tires so far)
  • The stock black brake shifter hoods were swapped for white ones. (because)
I'd say I've put in about $600 into it?

There is one minor drawback with the Carbon Haanjos. The chainstays flare out too wide and as a result, the frame can only use cranksets with extra wide bottom bracket spindles. The stock FSA crankset on the Comp Carbon is what FSA calls a "DB", which means it has about 3mm of extra spindle and spacers on each side of the bottom bracket. If you want to swap out the crankset for a different 2x, you will have some challenges.

I like the TRP Spire mechanical disk brakes. They are very easy to adjust and tune.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.