The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
aellis28

Member
Registered:
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #1 
I want to get a power meter, and the ones that appeal to me the most are the pedals like Garmin or P1s, but you can't wear mtb style shoes and that's all I wear.

Thus two questions:
(1) Do others use pedal power meters on their road / gravel bikes and thus wear road shoes for gravel grinders and other rides?
(2) If not, what do you use?

0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 760
Reply with quote  #2 
I've been a user of power meters for many years - both as an age group Masters road racer, and more recently as a non-competitive gravel fun rider. I personally believe that a good power meter is the best way to monitor and manage your training and riding effort, adn fitness level. But, just buying a power meter isn't enough - to get the most out of a power meter, you must know how to use the data that these devices give you. To that end, I would highly recommend the book Training With a Power Meter by Hunter Allan and Andy Coggan: https://smile.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-2nd-ebook/dp/B007WZ55XI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519958039&sr=8-1&keywords=training+with+power

This book will explain it all. That being said, and having used both hub based and crank arm based meters, I would suggest that you'll get your best combination of cost, accuracy, and convenience, with crank arm based systems such as systems from Stages, Pioneer, and 4iiii. If I had to chose one of these, then I would vote for Stages, because of the high quality of their firm ware, and great customer support. If you want more info. go to DC Rainmakers website for reviews of all of the popular brands and options.
0
cheamhale

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #3 
I've been quite happy with my Stages. Also their customer service is excellent.
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 760
Reply with quote  #4 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh
I've been a user of power meters for many years - both as an age group Masters road racer, and more recently as a non-competitive gravel fun rider. I personally believe that a good power meter is the best way to monitor and manage your training and riding effort, adn fitness level. But, just buying a power meter isn't enough - to get the most out of a power meter, you must know how to use the data that these devices give you. To that end, I would highly recommend the book Training With a Power Meter by Hunter Allan and Andy Coggan: https://smile.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-2nd-ebook/dp/B007WZ55XI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519958039&sr=8-1&keywords=training+with+power

This book will explain it all. That being said, and having used both hub based and crank arm based meters, I would suggest that you'll get your best combination of cost, accuracy, and convenience, with crank arm based systems such as systems from Stages, Pioneer, and 4iiii. If I had to chose one of these, then I would vote for Stages, because of the high quality of their firm ware, and great customer support. If you want more info. go to DC Rainmakers website for reviews of all of the popular brands and options.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews

Oh -- as far as I know, all the pedal based systems use road shoes, and are incompatible with mountain bike shoes. While there are some folks who ride and race gravel with road shoes and pedals, I prefer mountain bike pedals and shoes because they are more mud and dirt friendly, and of course make frequent hike-a-bike episodes easier and safer.

Here is DC's 2017 Power meter market review. Be prepared for a lot of info: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/11/power-meters-annual-buyers-guide-2017-edition.html

My personal recommendation either Stages or 4iiii left only crank arm system. But most importantly, read the Hunter Coggins book. Otherwise you'll just be getting a lot of expensive and useless data.
0
aellis28

Member
Registered:
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh


as far as I know, all the pedal based systems use road shoes, and are incompatible with mountain bike shoes. While there are some folks who ride and race gravel with road shoes and pedals, I prefer mountain bike pedals and shoes because they are more mud and dirt friendly, and of course make frequent hike-a-bike episodes easier and safer.


Thanks - this is what I was curious about, if people do use regular road shoes for those type of rides.  Most of my riding is on road and limestone trails, which I undoubtedly could use road shoes, but for when I do more gravel type rides I want to make sure I can use my powermeter.  So if no one else uses road shoes for those rides, then probably doesn't make sense to get a pedal powermeter.
0
clarksonxc

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 127
Reply with quote  #6 
I'm a big fan of the Stages PMs for the reasons mentioned above - cost, ease of use, and fantastic customer service.  You also have the option of running any pedals you want.  To answer your other question, I'll run road shoes on gravel if I know the route or have done the route before.  If I haven't done it and I don't know how much walking or hike-a-bike there'll be I use mountain pedals.  It is really annoying (and could potentially end your day) if your road cleats/pedals get gummed up with mud.  But if you never have to walk or put a foot down, road pedals are the way to go!
0
TimmyR

Member
Registered:
Posts: 65
Reply with quote  #7 
Just to add to the discussion (which is a good one and I'm ordering the book), I like to run flats and have been curious what people like with respect to power meters.  I am already a huge DC Rainmaker fan so I was not surprised to see the rec's here.

Thanks!


0
tim.wilson.chicago

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #8 
I hear you. I’ve been using power meters for years but also elliptical chainrings, which throw off crank-based power meter readings. My solution has been to use PowerTap hubs, which I love and work great, but not without issues: 1, Limits wheel selection. I’ve resorted to having wheels built custom, but still, more limited options. 2, The PT disk hub is a bit of a pain—you have to remove the disk to change the battery.

PowerTap were smart to shift their focus to pedals. And they were doubly smart to do pedals that sample angular velocity and torque at the same frequency, making them a good choice for non-round rings. And you can move them from bike to bike easily. I’m sold... EXCEPT, road cleats only. D’oh!

With the gravel segment being as hot as it is, you gotta think they’re hard at work on a mountain-style variant. One can only hope.


-Tim
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 760
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim.wilson.chicago
I hear you. I’ve been using power meters for years but also elliptical chainrings, which throw off crank-based power meter readings. My solution has been to use PowerTap hubs, which I love and work great, but not without issues: 1, Limits wheel selection. I’ve resorted to having wheels built custom, but still, more limited options. 2, The PT disk hub is a bit of a pain—you have to remove the disk to change the battery. PowerTap were smart to shift their focus to pedals. And they were doubly smart to do pedals that sample angular velocity and torque at the same frequency, making them a good choice for non-round rings. And you can move them from bike to bike easily. I’m sold... EXCEPT, road cleats only. D’oh! With the gravel segment being as hot as it is, you gotta think they’re hard at work on a mountain-style variant. One can only hope. -Tim

Interesting. I use round rings and wasn't aware that crank arm meters are thrown off by oval rings. I'm wondering if the boys at Stages have some sort of work around for the issue. I agree, a power meter built into a mountain bike pedal would be very attractive offering for me. Right now, I'm stuck with Shimano Hollowtech crank sets if I want to use my Stages meter. The Shimano 6800 cranks - while very good -- have very limited chain ring combinations and options. I would love to replace them with a White Industries R30 VBC; but I'd have to give up my power meter. A pedal based mtn bike meter would solve the problem.
0
tim.wilson.chicago

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh

Interesting. I use round rings and wasn't aware that crank arm meters are thrown off by oval rings.


Power is torque times angular velocity. Power meters measure torque many times per revolution via the strain gauges, but don't actually measure angular velocity, instead calculating it from RPMs, which is fine when angular velocity is constant as it is with round rings. But the whole point of elliptical rings is to vary angular velocity through the stroke. A crank or pedal-based system that assumes constant AV will over-report power by a few percentage points. According to PowerTap, the P1 actually measures AV at sufficient frequency to avoid this problem.


-Tim
0
The_JSM

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #11 
fwiw, i have a few Stages arms but they've been relegated to the "B" bikes.  While their customer service is great and repairs are handled quickly, my issue is with the frequency of the repairs.  Recently went out the week prior to Breck Epic (repaired thanks!!!) and 3 days before 24 hrs in Old Pueblo - the timing is impeccable.  OTOH, my Power2Max setups have been flawless since day one - i recently took advantage of their Summer trade in program and swapped a Gossamer based "classic" setup for the Sram spider NG (saving nearly a pound in the process).  I'm eagerly awaiting their mtb spiders since my SRMs are a little long in the tooth and use magnets for cadence (which comes with its own set of issues).

I've heard the newer (v3) pedals are solid (finally) but can't fathom "racing" gravel events in road cleats.  Good luck!
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.