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Light Bicycle

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Reply with quote  #26 
Hi RideMagnetic, 

Sorry for the slow reply here - I haven't forgot about your question but am just doing some digging in to our old product lines to make sure you get the detailed answer you deserve. 

Cheers, 

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Light Bicycle

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
Are the nerds developing featherweight fat bike rims for us too?  That's something I could get behind.


[smile] I guess only time will tell! 

(Yes, we are working on some new fatbike rims using different more lightweight construction. It won't be exactly the same as the flyweight construction, but it should a significant amount of weight off the existing rims)

- Light Bicycle
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Bicycle
Hi RideMagnetic, 

Sorry for the slow reply here - I haven't forgot about your question but am just doing some digging in to our old product lines to make sure you get the detailed answer you deserve. 

Cheers, 

Light Bicycle


Had to give this one a bump, since these very questions I posed about PSI and KGF have come up a few times just in the last week. Looking forward to getting this sussed out.    

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Light Bicycle

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic


I'll use the RR36C02 rim for an example. 

So the hookless version is rated for 40psi max. But just 3 years ago you had a rim with almost the same exact dimensions, also hookless, and same T700 carbon. They're almost the same weight too. The designation was 20130813 25Wx35D and they easily handle road pressures. I built with a ton of those rims and people love them. Come to think of it there is a multiple Colorado State RR champ out there on a set I built for him that claims they're the best wheel set he's ever had, and regularly rides them in the 80-90psi range wrapped in 25c rubber. What changed to make the psi rating drop that much? And now the hooked version of the new rim is rated at 4x more than the hookless at 160psi. [head scratching] 

The max kgf rating is pegged at 180, a number you never see on a rim. Zipp is half that. The rest are averaging 120 regardless of material.


Hi Ride Magentic, 

Thanks for the reminder! I thought I had replied to this thread last week, but obviously it didn't post for some reason. 

Anyways, here I go with some answers for you. 

Hookless Max Pressure: You are correct that previously we had the hookless pressure on a similar (well, narrower RRU35C02) rim rated as higher, but we have moved away from that for a couple of reasons. One, as I'm sure you know, the pressure you can run a tire on a hookless bead depends a lot on what the width of the tire and rim are. In the future, we are planning on moving away from Max/Min guidelines and instead making a tire range recommend pressure guideline. The second part of this is that we have found that tire companies often don't manufacture tires to tight enough tolerances. While one tire may work great on a hookless bead up to 80psi, another tire the same brand and same model might blow off a 60psi. 

That said, the hookless bead use the same layup and resin process as the hooked version of the rim, so that carbon is capable of handling higher pressures. This is not the case for many of our MTB rims. The resin and layup on, for example, the RM29C06 Flyweight rims is designed for lower pressures and cannot be run at 80psi regardless of whether or not a tire will seat. 

Max KGF: You are right to think that that 180kgf rating is really high. That number is a holdover from the Chinese website that we didn't realize was still there. We would never recommend that you build wheels to 180kgf and we typically build our wheels between 110 and 120kgf. However, the 180 number is accurate insofar as that we have used that much tension on our wheels in testing and they are more than capable of handling it. That's to say you'll break spokes before you pull a nipple through the rim. 


Anyways, you are correct. We (the NA operation) are still in the process of changing a lot of the language on both sites to reflect what we as cyclists and wheel builders would actually recommend people ride at and build with. The current information on the website is not incorrect in any way it's just, as you've noticed, a little confusing to dig through. 

Thanks!



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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #30 
I kind of suspected the technical writing may have been a part of the growing pains when East meets West in this fairly new business relationship. Thanks for clearing that up. That being said, it will be interesting to see what you guys will bring to the table here. The future looks bright. [thumb]



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SamSam

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Reply with quote  #31 
Does anyone know of any wheel builders in Europe that use Light Bicycle rims?
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSam
Does anyone know of any wheel builders in Europe that use Light Bicycle rims?


I don't have an answer for you, but I suggest you join this group, and ask the question there. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bicycle.wheel.building/?ref=bookmarks

There are a fair number of UK and Europe based wheel builders that belong to the group.  Good luck.

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Knuckleheadmtb

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Reply with quote  #33 
I’m really looking forward to getting a set of RG922’s for my upcoming custom steel disc all road! I’d love to see more pics if you guys have them!
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckleheadmtb
I’m really looking forward to getting a set of RG922’s for my upcoming custom steel disc all road! I’d love to see more pics if you guys have them!
20180308_120819.jpg 


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J. Peel

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Reply with quote  #35 
damn good looking set of wheels Oleritter!  Kinda reminds me of a set I have [biggrin]

Since I've had my LB wheels for a while now and have some real-world experience with them, I will add to the discussion.  I had these RG922s built on I9 Torch hubs with CX ray spokes.  I mounted WTB Resolute 42's and run them at 25-28psi.  These wheels are some of the lightest I've ever owned, spin up very quickly, and are a dream on the hill climbs.  They are not a harsh ride and actually ride smoother than my 650 wheelset (alloy rims) with 2" tires at 25 psi.  What has really impressed me with the wheels is how fast they accelerate on the downhill runs and how well they handle the bumps / rocks at high speed.  At every race / grinder / fun event I can easily outrun other experienced riders on the downhills, coasting and I'm not a heavy guy!  The wheels spin up very fast (I'm sure the I9's help here) but the rims/tires have just the right combination of lateral stiffness and vertical compliance that lets me be confident bombing the descents.  They handle the high speed stuff so well that I have to remind myself to drag the brakes just a bit so I don't outrun my headlights, or abilities!

In short, I'm impressed with the rims and would build another set without hesitation.

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Light Bicycle

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Reply with quote  #36 
Thanks J. Peel, 

It's great to hear that you are enjoying the rims!
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TiGeo

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Reply with quote  #37 
I feel the same way...my RG922s feel SO MUCH FASTER than my old wheelset...love them.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Peel
damn good looking set of wheels Oleritter!  Kinda reminds me of a set I have [biggrin]

Since I've had my LB wheels for a while now and have some real-world experience with them, I will add to the discussion.  I had these RG922s built on I9 Torch hubs with CX ray spokes.  I mounted WTB Resolute 42's and run them at 25-28psi.  These wheels are some of the lightest I've ever owned, spin up very quickly, and are a dream on the hill climbs.  They are not a harsh ride and actually ride smoother than my 650 wheelset (alloy rims) with 2" tires at 25 psi.  What has really impressed me with the wheels is how fast they accelerate on the downhill runs and how well they handle the bumps / rocks at high speed.  At every race / grinder / fun event I can easily outrun other experienced riders on the downhills, coasting and I'm not a heavy guy!  The wheels spin up very fast (I'm sure the I9's help here) but the rims/tires have just the right combination of lateral stiffness and vertical compliance that lets me be confident bombing the descents.  They handle the high speed stuff so well that I have to remind myself to drag the brakes just a bit so I don't outrun my headlights, or abilities!

In short, I'm impressed with the rims and would build another set without hesitation.



Hi James, Very glad you are so happy.  Makes me wonder why I still don't have a pair.  They are a pleasure to build, and the quality of the rims is very apparent.  I'm happy to build as many more as people want and ask me to!

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delore

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Reply with quote  #39 
I'm about to order a WG922 wheelset with DT Swiss 350s. I'm just confused about the SRAM XD drivers. I'm hoping to use the 1150 10-42 cassette... do I need to order the XD or XDR driver? Thank you.

For anyone that's interested, I think I'm going to order the following: Front Axle:12 / 100mm Rear Axle:12 / 142mm Freehub Body:Shimano Road 11S (+whatever XD driver I need) Brake System:Center lock Front Holes:28H Rear Holes:28H Spoke Head:straight pull Hub Color:Black Hub Brand:DT SWISS Hub Model:350 Ratchet:36T Spoke:Sapim CX Ray Nipple:Aluminium Black Finish:matte Weave:UD Decal:stealthValve Stem:Add Valve Stem Tubeless Tape:Add Tubeless Tape. I'll be using it on a Giant TCX with Rival 1.

Any advice / comments appreciated. My current wheels have 140 6-bolt rotors. I don't think SRAM make a centre lock in Rival 140 size... any recommendations? Thanks.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by delore
I'm about to order a WG922 wheelset with DT Swiss 350s. I'm just confused about the SRAM XD drivers. I'm hoping to use the 1150 10-42 cassette... do I need to order the XD or XDR driver? Thank you.

For anyone that's interested, I think I'm going to order the following: Front Axle:12 / 100mm Rear Axle:12 / 142mm Freehub Body:Shimano Road 11S (+whatever XD driver I need) Brake System:Center lock Front Holes:28H Rear Holes:28H Spoke Head:straight pull Hub Color:Black Hub Brand:DT SWISS Hub Model:350 Ratchet:36T Spoke:Sapim CX Ray Nipple:Aluminium Black Finish:matte Weave:UD Decal:stealthValve Stem:Add Valve Stem Tubeless Tape:Add Tubeless Tape. I'll be using it on a Giant TCX with Rival 1.

Any advice / comments appreciated. My current wheels have 140 6-bolt rotors. I don't think SRAM make a centre lock in Rival 140 size... any recommendations? Thanks.


The 1150 cassette needs the XD Driver.  If you can live without the 10t cog, then you could just get a 11/42, and the normal freehub.  You could also get a spare freehub and switch them at any point.  I like Shimano rotors myself, but I'd also change them to 160mm.  

I'm sending you a PM.

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TiGeo

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Reply with quote  #41 
For mine with DT350s, I didn't do the XD driver (which you have to have for any of the Sram cassettes with a 10t cog) and used a Sunrace 11-42 cassette.  Cheaper, about the same weight, and I just don't need the 10.  I did a 160 rotor in the front and a 140 in the back, 6-bolt using Sram Centerline rotors.
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delore

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Reply with quote  #42 
Thanks for the advice. Makes sense - I'll go with a 11-42 also. Thanks for your help.
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TiGeo

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Reply with quote  #43 
There are several Sunrace cassettes, each is a little different in terms of weight and this is based on the amount of aluminum used.  I like the CSMX8 @ ~419g (vs. the CSMS8 @ ~465g) which has aluminum spiders as well as aluminum 36/42 cogs to save some weight, not much increase in price to get it for ~50g loss of a rotating bit.

http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmx8
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HollyBoni

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Reply with quote  #44 
I would go for an XD hub for sure, I love my 10-42. Check out a gear calculator to see how much difference that 10T makes. And don't just think about it as a cassette with a higher gear, it's more gear range. You can fit a smaller front chainring, get a lower low end, while maintaining the same high end compared to an 11-42. 

When you compare weights also factor in that the 1150 is fully steel, which is nice because the big aluminium sprockets usually wear out first. But the Sunrace is cheaper of course. 
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Light Bicycle

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Reply with quote  #45 
Hey guys!

Thanks for carrying this discussion on.

Compatibility
I figured I'd jump in with some XD vs XD-R driver info. Basically the only difference between them is that the XD-R driver is slightly longer than the XD to accommodate the slightly longer road cassettes. The kicker here is that there are very very (are there any?) few SRAM XD Road cassettes out there. Until 12spd road takes off, pretty much every XD cassette you'll find will be an MTB one. All that means is that when you put and XD MTB cassette (like the 10-42 1195) on an XD-R freehub you'll need to run that narrow 1mm spacer that comes with the hub and adjust your shifting slightly. That's exactly what I did for the DK200 this year and it worked without a hitch. 

XD or XD-R Freehub?
Sometimes the same wheels will accept an XD or XD-R freehub, othertimes that isn't the case. 

For Example, a company like Industry Nine has slight differences in their pawl design between the MTB and Road hubs, so you can't actually mix and match them. XD has to stay with MTB and XD-R has to stay with road. 

However, if you were to look at someone like RaceFace and Easton, their Vault hub is almost the same from MTB to Road and the Race Face XD freehub works on the Easton Vault hub. Which is handy because Easton doesn't have an XD-R Freehub yet. 

I hope that clears things up a little!

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delore

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Reply with quote  #46 
I love this forum! In one thread, there's more great info here than looking through a hundred other websites... and don't get me started about the SRAM website ;-) Thanks everyone.
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delore

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Bicycle
 All that means is that when you put and XD MTB cassette (like the 10-42 1195) on an XD-R freehub you'll need to run that narrow 1mm spacer that comes with the hub and adjust your shifting slightly. That's exactly what I did for the DK200 this year and it worked without a hitch. 


On last question please. If I do end up going for a 10-42, can you please confirm this spec is OK:

Front Axle:12 / 100mm Rear Axle:12 / 142mm Freehub Body:XDR-freehub Brake System:Center lock Front Holes:28H Rear Holes:28H Spoke Head:straight pull Hub Color:Black Hub Brand:DT SWISS Hub Model:350 Ratchet:36T Spoke:Sapim CX Ray Nipple:Aluminium Black Finish:matte Weave:UD Decal:stealthValve Stem:Add Valve Stem Tubeless Tape:Add Tubeless Tape.

So I just need to specify a XD-R free hub for the 350s?

And obviously if I go for a 11-42, then the standard Shimano 11sp freehub is fine??

Thanks.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #48 
Honestly, I don't know much about XDR, but I don't believe DT Swiss offers one yet.  You can bet, though that if one day they do, it will swap onto their existing hubs.  XD is going to work with the existing stuff out there.  XDR is for the future.  

If you get an 11 speed freehub, you'll be able to fit pretty much any cassette out there, just nothing with a 10t cog.

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HollyBoni

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
Honestly, You can bet, though that if one day they do, it will swap onto their existing hubs. 


XDR is 1.8mm longer so i'm not sure that would work. 
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyBoni


XDR is 1.8mm longer so i'm not sure that would work. 


Is XDR 1.8mm longer than XD?  Is it longer than an 11 speed freehub?  Honestly kind of guessing here, but thinking it is the same length as 11 speed freehub, unless they are designing completely different hubs around it.  

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