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cjdaking

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'm doing my final long rides with my race day setup and hope to tap into the wisdom of those who have raced Kanza before. So far, I'm planning on the following setup:
  • 2 bottles in cages in the frame
  • 2 Revelate Mountain Feedbags; 1 for a 3rd bottle, 1 for food
  • 1 Revelate tangle bag (under top tube frame bag) with more food, spare tire, tube, CO2s, drink mix, backup battery for GPS, backup light, sealant, vest and arm warmers.
  • Under the saddle bag with tube, tools, patches.
Would another "bento box" style bag on the top tube be overkill? What setups have you used?
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nbwsandyutah

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Reply with quote  #2 
What are you planning (if anything) in terms of having crew support, or using the provided stuff at the race feed zones?    And what type of pace are you aiming for?

The setup you have laid out should be way more than enough to get you from aid station to aid station.  With the exception fluid re-fills, it almost sounds like enough to get you through the entire day without re-stocking.

I would say you should think that through, with an eye toward making your first priority being able to get from checkpoint to checkpoint.

If there is any weakness in your lineup, it might be fluid carrying capacity.  Are you planning on wearing a hydration pack?  If not, then you look to be planning on having 3 normal cycling bottles.  That could easily do the job, especially if you take a few extra seconds at each aid station to down fluids there as well.  But, if it is really hot (like last year) and you are a more moderate to slow pace, you could easily find it a stretch to go from check to check on just three bottles.  

Hope that helps. 
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jruhlen1980

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Reply with quote  #3 
I'll precede with the disclaimer that everyone's different and there's no correct answer.

I've ridden (and finished) DK twice, my goal is to beat the sun this year. You've got a pretty good setup.

+1 on having a "plan B" for extra water. Under normal conditions 2 bottles are more than sufficient for me to go 50 miles. That's fine for the first leg but as the day goes on and the heat goes up I was drinking more and more. (Also I don't drink straight water anymore, I drink highly diluted Skratch.) So on the 2nd and 3rd legs especially I plan on 4 bottles (three on the frame, one in my jersey). I have a 100-oz camelbak as backup with my support crew if needed. Last year on the third leg I went through 3 bottles and the entire camelbak with 20 miles to go. (A lot of that had to do with my fitness, weight, and nutrition strategy, and I hope I've addressed those issues this year.)

Bags -- I used a frame bag in 2015. There was miles of hike-a-bike. Carrying a bike with a frame bag is a gigantic PITA. Never again. Also, I had way more crap than I needed. I've refined my setup a bit since then. Bento box/gas tank/top tube bag with food and electrolyte pills. Very large saddle bag with three tubes, multitool, levers, quick links, spare RD hanger, and a couple other odds and ends. Also, a first aid kit. (Personal preference.) Frame pump bolted next to one of the water bottle cages.

I've been running this setup for a few months now and I'm pretty satisfied. I still haven't quite dialed in my cue sheet holder situation (don't rely 100% on your garmin for navigation because batteries die), but I've got a couple ideas.
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cjdaking

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks, fellas! I've done 100 mile events with limited re-supply options with 3 bottles, but it might make sense to pack a camelbak and skip the tangle bag. I can always drink it first to keep the weight off my back. I signed up for the support crew service, so I'm hoping to keep enough food on board to make it between checkpoints with a little margin to spare. 

Thanks for the tips!
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nbwsandyutah

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Reply with quote  #5 
Cool.  And I should say my guidance was based on the same format as last year, where there were basically 3 stops over the entire course.  I don't know if that is always the format each year.  But I assume it is.  Eg.

Start
Aid 1
Aid 2
Aid 3
Finish

So the spacing was roughly equal, but not exactly.  I think the longest increment was 55 miles or even 60 before the next pit.  So at like a 15-16 hour pace, that would mean average segment times of 4 hours.  Accounting for the fact that at least one of the legs was up to 60 miles, and the winds picked up later in the day, you are looking at a longest increment of maybe up to 5 hours. If it is very hot, that is a long time to go on just 3 water bottles... in fact, nearly impossible.

As far as carrying your food, the tangle bags could be good, and I think a good top-tube bag is great because it puts the food items within sight and within easy access.  Its staring you in the face reminding you to eat at regular intervals.  And easier to access for sure, than say in your jersey pockets, and probably easier than a tangle bag as well.  You just have to find the right one that fits the bike well, and is big enough to carry what you want, without giving you thigh rub on the up-down of your pedal stroke.



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jruhlen1980

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbwsandyutah
I don't know if that is always the format each year.  But I assume it is.


On the Paceline podcast the other day they said this year's route was mostly the same as last year's, so I think you're right with the 3 stops. They said they usually use the same route about 2-3 years.

Quote:
Accounting for the fact that at least one of the legs was up to 60 miles, and the winds picked up later in the day, you are looking at a longest increment of maybe up to 5 hours. If it is very hot, that is a long time to go on just 3 water bottles... in fact, nearly impossible.


That's no joke. The 60 mile leg, combined with the 90 degree heat and 20 mph headwind, combined with the fact that I just need more fluids in general after 100 miles, made for a pretty dicey situation last year. There was a farmer with a cooler full of cold water that saved my butt, that's for sure.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #7 
jruhlen1980 I use a product called Bar Map on my rando rides and fastens to  your handle bars. I see it's on Amazon.

Zman

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geoffreydean

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Reply with quote  #8 
I've never owned a Camelbak and I'm considering getting one for a 112 mile race (my first at this distance). I'm wondering if it's reasonable to plan on being able to get it quickly refilled at an aid station stop (there will be two fairly evenly spaced out)? Or do Camelbak users typically use the contents until empty and then that's it?

My first gravel race of 55 miles last weekend in 3 1/2 hours, I consumed 3 bottles (1 was Gatorade) and 2 gels for a total of 280 calories and 60 oz of fluid. It was 40's at the start and a beautiful 65-70 degrees by the finish.

My target 112 mile race at the end of June will likely be much warmer so fluid intake will surely need to be higher. And in regards to fuel, I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 200 calories per hour for 7+ hours for an experienced 150 lb athlete. Does this sound like I'm on the right track?
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Pattersnap

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Reply with quote  #9 
I'll chime in with my input. I've raced DK200 six times, finished three, and learned a fair bit from my DNFs. 

Last year I ran two bottles in the front triangle and two in a Profile Designs tri bottle holder behind the saddle. I kept my food in a top tube bag and jersey pockets. 

This setup worked very well for me. 

crux-full-1469049647383-yc0qpuai7z2x.jpg 



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meenanm

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Reply with quote  #10 
Good information above.  Thanks to all for the input. 

I'm riding the DK200 for the first time.  (What on Earth was I thinking [eek])  Shooting for a pre-sunset finish (for context of my plans below)

I'll be riding a Ridley Xtrail bike, likely tubeless Kenda Flintridge Pro 40mm tires an Enve m50's.  I'm still trying to figure out my hydration plan myself.  I carry two on the bike and can put a dual bottle on the saddle - similar to Pattersnap above.  I think I saw an article by him or someone with a similar setup.  Using hair bands to keep the saddle bottles on the bike. Four bottles should give me 1 to spare if all is going 'well' between stops.  I am concerned about the added weight on my back for the 200mi event.  The longest I've done to date with the pack on my back is MTB trail on mu fat bike, riding for 7-8 hours in a non-race event. It never got uncomfortable for that event.  I am thinking of putting a hydration pack at the at the 100ish and 150ish stops, in case I need it.

I prefer riding in the hot weather, low 30s on the commute in this AM here in Indy. 




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Pattersnap

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Reply with quote  #11 
Best of luck! 
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meenanm

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Reply with quote  #12 
Josh, thanks.  I just put the names together.  Your Article was fantastic. It is the one where I saw the idea of the hair bands and other great ideas for the bike setup.  Congrats on a great ride last year. Enjoyed the video and article.

I'm shooting for the pre-sunset, but honestly hoping to complete.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/horse-for-the-course-specialized-crux-for-the-dirty-kanza-200-47623/
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raparde

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Reply with quote  #13 
I'm also doing my first DK. What kind of food/water is available at the feed zones? I'll have people to pick me up if I need to bail, but they are supporting other riders, so I can't be sure they'll be at the feed zones when I will. Will I need to carry all the food I plan to eat over the day, or can I count on convenience stores/hosted feed stations?
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattersnap
I'll chime in with my input. I've raced DK200 six times, finished three, and learned a fair bit from my DNFs. 

Last year I ran two bottles in the front triangle and two in a Profile Designs tri bottle holder behind the saddle. I kept my food in a top tube bag and jersey pockets. 

This setup worked very well for me. 

crux-full-1469049647383-yc0qpuai7z2x.jpg 




So I know tri riders use this set up behind the seat for water bottles but that is on smooth roads. Any trouble on the Kanza ride of the bottles bouncing out. What is the brand of the set up for the behind the seat water bottles and also the top tube bag. Hoping to get my bike set up right and a few miles in my legs and on my new bike before I try the DK200 next year.

Ok now I see its Profile Design on the water bottles. And did the hair bands idea work for the rear bottles?

Thanks
Zman

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Pattersnap

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Reply with quote  #15 
I had zero troubles with premature ejection.

I replaced the stock Profile Designs cages (which were very crappy) with Specialized cages. I field tested this set-up on singletrack to ensure I wouldn't have any issues.

To make sure that an errant bottle didn't ruin a fellow racer's day I used hair ties as the second line of defense. 

The top tube bag is made by Speedsleev. Link: http://www.speedsleev.com/product-category/tube-cases/


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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattersnap
I had zero troubles with premature ejection.

I replaced the stock Profile Designs cages (which were very crappy) with Specialized cages. I field tested this set-up on singletrack to ensure I wouldn't have any issues.

To make sure that an errant bottle didn't ruin a fellow racer's day I used hair ties as the second line of defense. 

The top tube bag is made my Speedsleev. Link: http://www.speedsleev.com/product-category/tube-cases/




Since I didn't read the article/can't find it. How did you fasten the hair ties? Looped around the top of the cage and then over the top of the bottle. The speed sleeve could you get a bottle of water in there maybe? I am seeing a side pic of the rear water bottle cage. Is there 2 bottles there or only 1? 

I think I am good on the speed sleeve as that looks to be the same size of my bento box set up.

Thanks
Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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meenanm

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Reply with quote  #17 
@zurichman scroll up, there is a link to the article.  In my case, I drilled a small hole in the cage (XLabs) to loop the hair tie thru.  On my local gravel I had no ejections.  

Side effect, I 'think' it has an effect on the flex of my saddle.  Seems a little stiffer. I suppose where the clamps attach it takes away some flex.  Not sure, just a suspicion.

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harrast

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Reply with quote  #18 
Folks, new DK200 person here.  I read somewhere that there will be a course GPS file available.  I also recognize the risk of relying on GPS alone, etc.  In any case, I would like to upload the file to my Garmin.  Any leads on where I could find it?  I apologize if I am asking in the wrong forum.  Perhaps someone could help me find my way.  

Steve
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ronij

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrast
Folks, new DK200 person here.  I read somewhere that there will be a course GPS file available.  I also recognize the risk of relying on GPS alone, etc.  In any case, I would like to upload the file to my Garmin.  Any leads on where I could find it?  I apologize if I am asking in the wrong forum.  Perhaps someone could help me find my way.  

Steve


GPS links to be released Monday May 29. I'm also planning on using my GPS mostly.


http://dirtykanza.com/course-information/
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jpankask

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raparde
I'm also doing my first DK. What kind of food/water is available at the feed zones? I'll have people to pick me up if I need to bail, but they are supporting other riders, so I can't be sure they'll be at the feed zones when I will. Will I need to carry all the food I plan to eat over the day, or can I count on convenience stores/hosted feed stations?


There are convenience stores at each of the checkpoint towns this year, though they may be several blocks off the course or away from the checkpoint location.  Probably not hosted feed stations, but last year there were people along the course offering riders food (watermelon) and water periodically. 
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #21 
This might not apply to this ride but I am seeing something different on some gravel grinding races. On road races you normally pin the number to your back jersey. On some of the ultra races you might have the number on our helmet and attached to your rear stay or top tube. I am seeing on these races that they have numbers fastened to the front of the bike like motor cross. Do people just zip tie this to the front and how well do they stay on to the front of the bike?

Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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crapknees

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
This might not apply to this ride but I am seeing something different on some gravel grinding races. On road races you normally pin the number to your back jersey. On some of the ultra races you might have the number on our helmet and attached to your rear stay or top tube. I am seeing on these races that they have numbers fastened to the front of the bike like motor cross. Do people just zip tie this to the front and how well do they stay on to the front of the bike?

Zman



They give you sturdy twisty ties at most races and you're required to put the number out front under the bars. I've never had trouble with them coming loose. But I always have zip ties in my kit for unexpected issues. They also frown upon folding the numbers around they want it flat.
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Pattersnap

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Reply with quote  #23 
Zman, 

Here's how I kept the bottles in place. 

water-bottles-hair-ties-1469048225230-xqaapwqgidrk.jpg 

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattersnap
Zman, 

Here's how I kept the bottles in place. 

water-bottles-hair-ties-1469048225230-xqaapwqgidrk.jpg 


What kind of tri bottle set up is that as I never needed that road riding but looks like I will for the gravel grinding rides/races. 

Thanks
Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crapknees
They give you sturdy twisty ties at most races and you're required to put the number out front under the bars. I've never had trouble with them coming loose. But I always have zip ties in my kit for unexpected issues. They also frown upon folding the numbers around they want it flat.


Thanks
Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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