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egear

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Reply with quote  #51 
Sand and snow I agree with but around here we sold them to mtn bikers who wanted the latest "stuff".  They tried to ride them up hills on tight single track and gave up quickly.  Here a bike like a Trek Stash is your best bet for all around riding year round.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by egear
Sand and snow I agree with but around here we sold them to mtn bikers who wanted the latest "stuff".  They tried to ride them up hills on tight single track and gave up quickly.  Here a bike like a Trek Stash is your best bet for all around riding year round.

 
Well we all know that Americans want the latest thing/bling to brag to their buddies. I am not included in on that as my newest bike before I bought the Tamland 1 to begin gravel riding was a 2006 Lemond Victoirre. I probably will never own Dura Ace or for sure electronic shifting. [biggrin]

Zman 

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imwjl

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Reply with quote  #53 
My age says not a fad.

Two retail associates I know via trail building and leading an IMBA chapter say it's a current fad. One has booming MTB business above the rest because of the trail development i the area. He says that aside a whole lot of people who became Lance-A-Likes or got tired of triathlete bending over and training have bought the gravel style bike recently. The seller of the mint used Fargo I just got said he could only believe it sat in his used inventory for a year because quite a few people bought bikes labeled or marketed as gravel or monster cross.

To be honest I don't care if it's a fad. I'm happy to see people active, people happy, and people I know employed. My area has Trek, Pacific Cycle, Saris, Suntour, Planet Bike, and some manufacturer reps. That's a lot of decent people not flipping burgers or pouring expensive cups of coffee.

Better yet. If it's a fad, the fad sure is giving me some nice options for purchasing a few new items for commuting and bad weather cycling.

All I find silly about some bike fads is the way they can be taken as religion or people being so tribal. It should be known that can really work against the few of us who are advocate associates with government units, land owners and land managers.

[smile]
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #54 
I think your MTB shops are a coming up a bit short when it comes to word definitions.

fad
fad/
noun
 
  1. an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.

I don't know of any "fads" that are over a decade old and influencing product design for almost just as long. 'Trend' might be more like it. But who am I to say...  English is my 2nd language after all.

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imwjl

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Reply with quote  #55 
I get how the shop manager sees it it as a fad. He pointed out their trade business. Hardly used road bikes bought when Lance was a star being traded for CX/gravel style bikes. People saying they got into stand up paddle boarding and now into bike rides again. Fat bikes traded for this style bike. A sudden fear of being hit by a car even though the stats don't point to a local smacked by cars on the road epidemic. Retail always has fads. Maybe it's the second round? My daughter in high school thinks my stuff that embarrassed her earlier is cool now.

Yes there are trends too. I'm sure the trend is some sales up where I'm at because of infrastructure - new pathways, new CX areas, and add Trek bringing a big CX race.

One positive trend I see near me are some who used to drive their bikes to the ride place in a care are riding from home.
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #56 
How ironic that the predominately mtb shop is calling gravel a fad. 10 years after Tom, Gary, Charlie, and Joe discovered plutonium people were still calling mtb a fad in the mid 80's. Seems we never learn. [crazy]
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imwjl

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic
How ironic that the predominately mtb shop is calling gravel a fad. 10 years after Tom, Gary, Charlie, and Joe discovered plutonium people were still calling mtb a fad in the mid 80's. Seems we never learn. [crazy]


I'm sorry. You've lost me there. It always looks like the shop I mentioned specialty business mostly caters to CX and triathlete riders and I'm sure most retailers have and count on some trend hoppers.
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #58 
You said your 2 of your retail shops are calling out gravel as a fad, one of which is mtb centric. Seems I failed to point out the irony that it's odd for an mtb shop to call out gravel as a fad since mtb was once in a similar position that gravel is now. But no problem. Looks like we have completely different interpretations of 'fad' vs 'trend'. I'm only following Webster's English version. I'm sure there's something I overlooked.
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imwjl

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic
You said your 2 of your retail shops are calling out gravel as a fad, one of which is mtb centric. Seems I failed to point out the irony that it's odd for an mtb shop to call out gravel as a fad since mtb was once in a similar position that gravel is now. But no problem. Looks like we have completely different interpretations of 'fad' vs 'trend'. I'm only following Webster's English version. I'm sure there's something I overlooked.


Sorry, I think you want an argument where there is none, a big increase in a category doesn't make our club's partner a MTB Shop.

If some trend hoppers or fad folks jump on for a bit I say great. Hopefully the people in business like this nice site get a boost or bonus from it.

Trend or fad... There's always someone like the nice guy in our neighborhood we saw mowing his lawn yesterday. When MTB got bigger here he got one. When Lance was big he got a composite type Trek. He had a fat bike and this year I saw him putting around the gravel conservancy paths and to the brewery on a CX bike. No one I know ever recalls him really doing much riding. He always looks happy and someone made a living over it.

Maybe I'm a fake or adding to fad? I don't really identify as single speeder, fat biker or much more than trail digger but have and love using those types of bikes.

Finally, gravel grinding is really the start of mountain biking for quite a few. Just before I discovered catalogs from CA with MTB and Magura motorcycle parts we would beef old bikes we used on forest roads with lesser stuff or just use them until they'd die. My original StumpJumper didn't have much single track but was a great improvement for the hundreds of miles of forest roads near our cabin and Lake Superior.

Gravel grinding is probably just more specialization that's happened all over. As a baby boomer I see so many areas where we have lots of product choice that didn't exist when I was younger.

[smile]

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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #60 
As I have said before, gravel grinding is absolutely a fad.  I am not sure why so many people get offended by that, do you not want to admit you participate in something that is a fad?  I started getting into heavy metal in the mid 80s.  The heavy metal music/culture was absolutely a fad.  I still listen to metal, but most who jumped on the metal bandwagon in the 80s are long gone.  When something is a fad, it means large numbers of people get very dedicated to it, for a short time.  That isn't to say the thing itself, be it heavy metal, disco or gravel grinding doesn't continue to exist.  I also was into the bmx fad, which was huge in the 80s.  Back then every kid had a bmx/freestlye bike (in my neighborhood you had to have a Haro to be cool). That fad is long gone too, but people still ride bmx and fresstyle bikes.  I was "gravel grinding" back when it was just called "riding your bike".  Back in the 90s me and my friends would ride 100 mile rides over pavement, gravel and singletrack, we didn't have or need a name for it.  The very fact that it even has a name proves it has become a fad.  The bandwagon people will eventually get bored and move onto something else and the many gravel rides/races will probably decrease in popularity.   The rest of us will just keep riding our bikes wherever and however makes us happy as we always have.  If it upsets you to call it a fad, then you might want to ask yourself why?  Are you just on the bandwagon and fear people will get out of it and you won't be cool anymore.  I personally don't care who else is doing it or how popular or cool it is.  I am going to keep riding how I want no matter what others are doing.
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imwjl

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsmith
As I have said before, gravel grinding is absolutely a fad.  I am not sure why so many people get offended by that, do you not want to admit you participate in something that is a fad?  I started getting into heavy metal in the mid 80s.  The heavy metal music/culture was absolutely a fad.  I still listen to metal, but most who jumped on the metal bandwagon in the 80s are long gone.  When something is a fad, it means large numbers of people get very dedicated to it, for a short time.  That isn't to say the thing itself, be it heavy metal, disco or gravel grinding doesn't continue to exist.  I also was into the bmx fad, which was huge in the 80s.  Back then every kid had a bmx/freestlye bike (in my neighborhood you had to have a Haro to be cool). That fad is long gone too, but people still ride bmx and fresstyle bikes.  I was "gravel grinding" back when it was just called "riding your bike".  Back in the 90s me and my friends would ride 100 mile rides over pavement, gravel and singletrack, we didn't have or need a name for it.  The very fact that it even has a name proves it has become a fad.  The bandwagon people will eventually get bored and move onto something else and the many gravel rides/races will probably decrease in popularity.   The rest of us will just keep riding our bikes wherever and however makes us happy as we always have.  If it upsets you to call it a fad, then you might want to ask yourself why?  Are you just on the bandwagon and fear people will get out of it and you won't be cool anymore.  I personally don't care who else is doing it or how popular or cool it is.  I am going to keep riding how I want no matter what others are doing.


You're making me smile.

It's all riding and loving bikes to me too. It's hoping the folks who run this site are getting income from those ad clicks. It's being really glad someone made the do it all bike we have and loving what I see as I shop for some replacement and bike accessory updates.

Being new to the forum it's being pleased to see a bunch of people really engaged and loving something. Locally it's seeing riding associates quite tied to a niche outside of that and all riding gravel to a neighboring city for a beer.

Being not all that smart it still hasn't made or broken my idea to join some friends on the B.A.L.L.S. ride next spring.

[smile]
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #62 
I think you guys have a very poor understanding of the difference between trend and fad. So much so that you can't even tell the difference when I post the actual definitions from the dictionary. By definition gravel riding and racing is a trend not a fad. 
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ljsmith

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic
I think you guys have a very poor understanding of the difference between trend and fad. So much so that you can't even tell the difference when I post the actual definitions from the dictionary. By definition gravel riding and racing is a trend not a fad. 


To your amazement I can understand everything you post.  Gravel Grinding is exactly what the dictionary definition of fad is: a practice or interest followed for a time with exaggerated zeal.  And your over the top zeal to refuse to accept it as a fad only further shows what a fad it is.  You are the most vocal bandwagon fanboy.  If it helps you feel better you can call it a trend since you seem to think there is this HUGE difference between a fad and a trend that only a smart guy like you can understand.  Or you could just look up fad in the thesaurus (since you like looking stuff up).  Then you might notice one of the synonyms of fad.  A smart guy like you probably knows what a synonym is but I have that definition below for the rest of us who are not like you and have a poor understanding of things.  



Synonyms of fad  buzzchiccrazedernier crienthusiasmfashionflavorgohot ticketlast wordlatestmoderagesensationstyletontrendvogue

Definition of synonym  :one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic
I think you guys have a very poor understanding of the difference between trend and fad. So much so that you can't even tell the difference when I post the actual definitions from the dictionary. By definition gravel riding and racing is a trend not a fad. 


I am with ridemagnetic on this one. A fad is like the bell bottoms of the 60's It comes and goes and sometimes comes back into style. A trend is here to stay and gravel riding is here to stay as it isn't going anywhere. If you look at this sites calendar of events or even over at gravelcyclist there are events/gravel rides all over the world.


ljsmith your definition kind of sums up a fad

a practice interest followed by a time with exaggerated interest

the key  in there being followed by a time.

gravel riding is here to stay just not for a time with exaggerated zeal.

Here is what I found when looking up trend
a. A prevailing tendency or inclination
b. A general movement
c. A current style or preference.

I would say these 3 definitions apply much more to gravel riding than a fad but then that is just me. 

 
Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #65 
Never thought I'd ever see an unhinged personal attack on this forum, but there it is. I sure would like to see how far someone would get on a site like mtbr or pinkbike and calling out DH or Enduro as fads. I bet they wouldn't last past the first page before being chased out of there for trolling. So I guess if I'm such an 'over the top zealot' or the 'most vocal fanboy' for simply stating the obvious, I wonder what that makes the owners of this site... The Ministers of Gravel Propaganda? From the very first post of this thread http://ridinggravel.com/editorial/gravel-grinding-is-not-a-fad/

Some interesting reading for the one or two people here who are adamant that these terms are interchangeable beyond anything more than extremely generalized conversation between 12 year olds who can't yet make the distinction between the two. Seems professional academics disagree as well. From the tech industry but applicable nonetheless.  

Quote:
Distinguishing Fad from Trend

Karl M. Kapp, Ed.D.

A learning professional must be able to separate fads from trends. The ability to distinguish between the two allows the professional to avoid jumping on a bandwagon versus becoming an organizational thought leader. Ignoring fads and participating in a legitimate trend can help you correctly navigate technology to bring the most effective learning to your organization.

There are three ways to distinguish a fad from a trend. It is important to know these methods when evaluating technology and learning budgets.

TRENDS SPRING FROM REAL NEEDS 

The first clue to examine is to look at the origin of the popularity of a particular technology. Fads and trends can have similar beginnings so some investigation is in order. Ask the following types of questions: Is the technology popular because it solves a specific problem? Is it easier to use? Is it faster or more efficient? Trends have an identifiable benefit over previous instructional methods or approaches, and are driven by the fact that they are solving instructional needs.

Fads, on the other hand, are driven by a “coolness” factor or even a “me-too” type mentality. A fad starts with technology and then tries to find a need for the technology. It should be the opposite — start with a need and then figure out what technology best addresses that need. A fad typically doesn’t deliver on its promise while trends tend to get stronger over time and actually solve more needs than originally anticipated.

SCOPE OF PHENOMENON 

The next clue to examine is the scope of phenomenon that might become a trend or fad. Trends tend to encompass entire areas of technology and not just a single brand or item. For example, mobile learning became a trend because any kind of mobile device could be used. But Google Glass was more of a fad partly because it was only one product by one company and other manufactures really didn’t participate within that market.

While it may seem hard at the beginning to determine the scope of a phenomenon, look at the vendors providing the technology and carefully determine if it is gaining momentum because a group of vendors are all launching a similar technology or because one vendor has developed some buzz and energy around a product and that product is taking off like hot cakes.

NATURE OF THE GROWTH 

The rate of growth of a phenomenon can also provide clues as to fad or trend. Trends evolve slowly over time with course corrections and new approaches to the same concept as the idea grows and matures. The phenomenon that launches a trend, like mobile devices, tend to change over time to meet learning needs and what seems like an overnight hit actually develops over a considerable timeframe.

Alternatively, fads spike quickly and dramatically and then fade away just as quickly. Time is a great device for distinguishing between a fad and a true trend in the field of learning and development. It is not always a bad idea to sit back and wait to see how quickly technology is adopted and how many companies participate in the growing phenomenon.

CONCLUSION 

To distinguish between a fad and a trend in the field of learning and development, use these three criteria to examine the technology you are considering adopting. Looking at the origin of the technology and the problem it purports to solve as well as the scope of industry participation can help you determine if it’s fad or trend. This knowledge will help you make the right choices for your learners as you continue to stay on the leading edge of technology and not waste your energy on fads.

 

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A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
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