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pryde

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello,

I just joined the forum and starting yet another bike hunt post...sorry.

I am looking for a ~$1500 GG for the mountains of WNC. It will be used a mix of road and fire road mountain climbing and descending. I currently have a full carbon road bike and am missing out on all the great gravel around here. 

So I am primarily a mountain biker, pretty good fitness with 20+ years of riding trail (and road in bad weather). I also wrench myself so have no problem building up a frame if possible in the budget.

Because of all the climbing I don't want a tank so I am likly looking at aluminum (or higher end steel) for sure. I am not sure carbon is in the budget.

I am newer to this market and have been looking at:
Raleigh Tamland, Willard, or Roker (corporate discount)
Diamondback Haanjo (corporate discount)
Fuji Jari (the 1.3 has great specs but around 1699. anything out there less with similar specs?)
Frame options (prefer threaded BB)???

Thanks for any advice!   
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pryde
Hello,

I just joined the forum and starting yet another bike hunt post...sorry.

I am looking for a ~$1500 GG for the mountains of WNC. It will be used a mix of road and fire road mountain climbing and descending. I currently have a full carbon road bike and am missing out on all the great gravel around here. 

So I am primarily a mountain biker, pretty good fitness with 20+ years of riding trail (and road in bad weather). I also wrench myself so have no problem building up a frame if possible in the budget.

Because of all the climbing I don't want a tank so I am likly looking at aluminum (or higher end steel) for sure. I am not sure carbon is in the budget.

I am newer to this market and have been looking at:
Raleigh Tamland, Willard, or Roker (corporate discount)
Diamondback Haanjo (corporate discount)
Fuji Jari (the 1.3 has great specs but around 1699. anything out there less with similar specs?)
Frame options (prefer threaded BB)???

Thanks for any advice!   


This is what I know on the weight of the Raleighs say in size 56cm frame

Tamland 1 mine weighed 25.1 lbs bare paid $799 + $49 tax with Corporate account
Roker Sport weighs 22.1 lbs I think around $1200 and you are getting a carbon frame.
Roker Comp mine weighs 20.5 lbs. It has Sram 1x Rival. paid $1653 no tax or shipping using Save5 & Corporate price 


If I was a wrench I probably would buy the Roker Sport and make some changes to it. If that is the case though you better get on it though as they are going out of stock with none in 2018

Good luck in whatever you buy.
Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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pryde

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


This is what I know on the weight of the Raleighs say in size 56cm frame

Tamland 1 mine weighed 25.1 lbs bare paid $799 + $49 tax with Corporate account
Roker Sport weighs 22.1 lbs I think around $1200 and you are getting a carbon frame.
Roker Comp mine weighs 20.5 lbs. It has Sram 1x Rival. paid $1653 no tax or shipping using Save5 & Corporate price 


If I was a wrench I probably would buy the Roker Sport and make some changes to it. If that is the case though you better get on it though as they are going out of stock with none in 2018

Good luck in whatever you buy.
Zman


Thank you.

I have learned that I can get a new 2017 model Fuji Jari 1.3 for just under $1500 in my size. It includes 105 2x drivetrain, shifters, and hydraulic brakes, also has Stans Radler wheelset.

In my limited research, this seams like a great deal. Is there anything else that has the same spec for the price? Any thoughts on the Fuji Jari line?
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pryde


Thank you.

I have learned that I can get a new 2017 model Fuji Jari 1.3 for just under $1500 in my size. It includes 105 2x drivetrain, shifters, and hydraulic brakes, also has Stans Radler wheelset.

In my limited research, this seams like a great deal. Is there anything else that has the same spec for the price? Any thoughts on the Fuji Jari line?



I googled Fuji Jari 1.3 since I knew nothing about it. There is a good review over at bike forums under 2018 Jari  After reading that I still would be suggesting the Raleigh Roker Sport to you as I do love my carbon Roker over my steel Tamland. You would have to upgrade some components on the Sport right away or over time as they wear out.

What I got out of that review was it wasn't a responsive bike or a wow fact bike like the Jamis bike line or maybe my Raleigh's that I own. Probably not you either as I plan on keeping my bikes but not much of a trade in value. One guy said he own 18 bikes and wasn't impressed with the Fuji. yowser. Maybe take a test ride on it and a Jamis, or a Raleigh and see for yourself. 

Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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jjbnum3

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi pryde
I would start with looking at the geometry  of the bikes and what might fit you better to start off with.
I look at the stack and reach.I like the Roker over most others because the shorter ST to TT fits  my bike inseam for my height  better over the Diamondback Haanjo and few others.Plus the price for A CF bike was 
also factor into buying.

Have you test ridden any road or gravel bikes to get I idea of sizing or do you know your size?




 

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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #6 
My $.02. I'm really new to GG cycling myself. After nearly 60 years banging elbows on pavement- I rode my first bike race as a 15 year old Junior in 1958 - I discovered the joys of the quiet unpaved New England roads where I now live. I too do my own wrenching most of the time. But unlike you, things like disc brakes, tubeless tires, through axles etc. were foreign to me. In the past 2 years of GG riding I've gone from a converted Trek hybrid, DB Hanjo (Alu), Ritchey Swiss Cross, and a custom steel 44Bike Huntsman - which is my current ride. What I've learned along the way, I'll share with you.
- The frame and bike fit is the most important choice you can make. Frame material is irrelevant. As is frame weight - especially for the type of riding you expect.
- Tire clearance is the next most important factor to consider. You should have sufficient clearance for at least a 40mm knobby 700c gravel  tire.
- The second most important consideration are wheels and tires. Here again, ignore weight and consider durability and reliability.
- If possible, try to find a frame that uses a through axle design for disc brakes. This is the direction the industry is going. Unfortunately, I believe that the bikes on your list use skewers. While I've found that for my riding skewers are more than adequate, even using rim brakes, you'll find that your future upgrade options may be very limited.
It is difficult to meet these criteria at your current budget. But if you can increase your budget to around $2,000, you'll find many more options that will work for you. Here is an example - the Salsa Warbird: https://salsacycles.com/bikes/warbird/2018_warbird_apex_1

Shop around. You may be able to get a very good deal on this bike, or something similar. Also, of course, test ride before you buy.
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pryde

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbnum3
Hi pryde
I would start with looking at the geometry  of the bikes and what might fit you better to start off with.
I look at the stack and reach.I like the Roker over most others because the shorter ST to TT fits  my bike inseam for my height  better over the Diamondback Haanjo and few others.Plus the price for A CF bike was 
also factor into buying.

Have you test ridden any road or gravel bikes to get I idea of sizing or do you know your size?




 



Yes I have a full carbon Orbea road bike that fits pretty great (58cm) so I have a pretty good idea of the stack and reach I am after being 6'1" with 35" cycling inseam. 

Definitely fit is priority one but since I have good knowledge of bike fit/setup, I am more focused on a good frame with decent spec (i.e. 105 level or better) with ok wheels to get me on the gravel and upgrade as things wear out. This is assuming I get a complete bike.

If building up a frame is the focus, then I will spring for a good set of wheels for the build.  


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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #8 
At my end I think the Raleigh's fit a little large. I am 6 ft with 34" leg inseam and 34-35" arm inseam. All my road bikes are 57 and the 56 CM Raleigh fits me well.


Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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pryde

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
At my end I think the Raleigh's fit a little large. I am 6 ft with 34" leg inseam and 34-35" arm inseam. All my road bikes are 57 and the 56 CM Raleigh fits me well.


Zman


Good to know about the sizing thank you. Unfortunately Raleigh has no Roker Sport in my size and the comp is out of the budget, even with corporate discount. My only options are a Tamland 1/2, or a Willard 3 or 4 in my size. Not sure about those as there may be better options out there in the 1200-1500 range.


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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pryde


Good to know about the sizing thank you. Unfortunately Raleigh has no Roker Sport in my size and the comp is out of the budget, even with corporate discount. My only options are a Tamland 1/2, or a Willard 3 or 4 in my size. Not sure about those as there may be better options out there in the 1200-1500 range.




There is a slight possibility that you can find it on Amazon for that price as I think I remember somebody else posting that.

Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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NoCoGreg

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Reply with quote  #11 
I'd like to 2nd the recommendations from Bobknh and add that if you're going to be special ordering a bike, it might be good to do a test ride on a bike with similar geometry.  My new Roker has a great ride -BUT- the long rake does make for a very stable ride at speed but there is more wheel flop at low speeds.  I am comfortable steering with body position and am comfortable with bikes with a lot of wheel flop, but this might not be what you're looking for in a ride.  In any case, the message is that yes geometry will affect how the bike feels.  I prefer to think of each bike having it's own personality and I appreciate the advantages of each.

That said, I just weighed my wife's new Jamis Renegade Expert (Shimano 105 11spd and hydraulic brakes) and it's the exact same weight as my Roker Sport at 22 lbs without pedals.  The only non-standard changes to the Jamis was tubeless setup with the Clement 40mm tubeless MSO's (my Roker has tubes and MSO 40mm tires) and with extra padding on the bars (starting at the hoods and going up).  

If you happen to fit a 56cm, the place where I purchased my Roker Sport has your bike. :-)  
https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/raleigh-2016-roker-sport-cyclocross-bike/pr3e5811/product

Before placing the order I'd request the following thing from the folks at Erik's:
1. Have them remove the RD from the hanger.  Zman and others have had the derailleur hanger bent during shipping.  The folks at Eriks removed and wrapped the RD in bubble wrap and the bike arrived without damage.

2. Have them double check FD operation.  The front shifting on my bike didn't work.  After spending a lot of time trying different cable routing I could get the shifting close but never correct.  The folks at Raleigh were very helpful, but after they too ran out of suggestions it was a 2nd trip back to the LBS where a more careful analysis identified the problem to be the Tiagra front shifter.  The shop contacted Shimano who is sending out a new shifter. 

Yeah, one can save money with mail order but don't be surprised if some of those savings are lost if things go wrong...

In comparison, the Renegade Expert I just purchased, at that same LBS mentioned above, was setup to the exact same fit as my wife's road bike and worked flawlessly on her first ride (about 40 miles of gravel).  The only thing I had to do with the Jamis was install the pedals and saddle bag from her old gravel bike and adjust tire pressure.

In comparison my wife's aluminum Kona Jake with a 3x9 setup and canti brakes weighs exactly the same as her new Jamis.  So why a new bike? She really needed disk brakes as her hands were not strong enough for her to feel comfortable on the Kona.  The carbon frame and wider tubeless tires give the Jamis a very different ride which she loves.

Happy shopping,
Greg

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pryde

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


There is a slight possibility that you can find it on Amazon for that price as I think I remember somebody else posting that.

Zman


No sir. There is a 58cm on Amazon (my size for a roker) at 2K. Too rich for my blood.

@NoCo Greg:
Thanks for the advice. I am pretty confident of my understanding of the sizing and geometry involved in GG bikes. I know what reach/stack/sizing I am after, just need to find the right bike and price.


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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCoGreg
I'd like to 2nd the recommendations from Bobknh and add that if you're going to be special ordering a bike, it might be good to do a test ride on a bike with similar geometry.  My new Roker has a great ride -BUT- the long rake does make for a very stable ride at speed but there is more wheel flop at low speeds.  I am comfortable steering with body position and am comfortable with bikes with a lot of wheel flop, but this might not be what you're looking for in a ride.  In any case, the message is that yes geometry will affect how the bike feels.  I prefer to think of each bike having it's own personality and I appreciate the advantages of each.



NoCoGreg can you tell me what wheel flop is as I don't have much to compare my Raleigh bikes to as I had a Junky 30 lbs+ Schwinn before these 2 bikes?

Zman
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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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jjbnum3

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh
My $.02. I'm really new to GG cycling myself. After nearly 60 years banging elbows on pavement- I rode my first bike race as a 15 year old Junior in 1958 - I discovered the joys of the quiet unpaved New England roads where I now live. I too do my own wrenching most of the time. But unlike you, things like disc brakes, tubeless tires, through axles etc. were foreign to me. In the past 2 years of GG riding I've gone from a converted Trek hybrid, DB Hanjo (Alu), Ritchey Swiss Cross, and a custom steel 44Bike Huntsman - which is my current ride. What I've learned along the way, I'll share with you.
- The frame and bike fit is the most important choice you can make. Frame material is irrelevant. As is frame weight - especially for the type of riding you expect.
- Tire clearance is the next most important factor to consider. You should have sufficient clearance for at least a 40mm knobby 700c gravel  tire.
- The second most important consideration are wheels and tires. Here again, ignore weight and consider durability and reliability.
- If possible, try to find a frame that uses a through axle design for disc brakes. This is the direction the industry is going. Unfortunately, I believe that the bikes on your list use skewers. While I've found that for my riding skewers are more than adequate, even using rim brakes, you'll find that your future upgrade options may be very limited.
It is difficult to meet these criteria at your current budget. But if you can increase your budget to around $2,000, you'll find many more options that will work for you. Here is an example - the Salsa Warbird: https://salsacycles.com/bikes/warbird/2018_warbird_apex_1

Shop around. You may be able to get a very good deal on this bike, or something similar. Also, of course, test ride before you buy.


Great post and info.I'm way overdue for A new bike fit.
thanks Joe

Most if not all the Raleigh gravel type bikes listed went from skewers to  Thru-Axle from 2016 to 2017 model year.The Roker was  Thru-Axle both years.Damn hard to keep up on all the changes year to year.

Looks like the new 2018 Willard 4 is still thru-Axle,but looks like they made lots of changes/upgrades almost everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


There is a slight possibility that you can find it on Amazon for that price as I think I remember somebody else posting that.

Zman


Yeah Amazon had some low prices on Raleighs and few other brands back in December.Now they seem really high.I do not recall seeing any Rokers. Not sure why the crazy low prices.


Bought A Record Ace and A Carlton for my wife and one for me.I can regret passing on  Clubman Carbon,but I was so broke with xmas,property taxes and just buying the Record Ace.I could have put it on the CC.






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jjbnum3

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pryde


Yes I have a full carbon Orbea road bike that fits pretty great (58cm) so I have a pretty good idea of the stack and reach I am after being 6'1" with 35" cycling inseam. 

Definitely fit is priority one but since I have good knowledge of bike fit/setup, I am more focused on a good frame with decent spec (i.e. 105 level or better) with ok wheels to get me on the gravel and upgrade as things wear out. This is assuming I get a complete bike.

If building up a frame is the focus, then I will spring for a good set of wheels for the build.  




I'm A little taller(6' 2.5") with A  smaller bike inseam.
But you should be easier to fit on  most bikes.

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NoCoGreg

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman

NoCoGreg can you tell me what wheel flop is as I don't have much to compare my Raleigh bikes to as I had a Junky 30 lbs+ Schwinn before these 2 bikes?

Zman

The best description I could give for wheel flop is a steering effect where the front wheel turns more (flops over) than expected.  Below is a link to a bicycle rake/trail calculator and they provide links for description of all the terms including flop.

Increasing rake and decreasing the head tube angle (aka Roker) will increase flop.  Increasing the weight of the front wheel with a larger tire will also increase flop.

Note that flop is most noticeable at slow speeds and quickly disappears as the bike moves faster and the wheel builds up inertia.  

If you'd like to experiment to feel the effect of flop, swap between your Roker and a good light weight road race bike and do slow speed figure 8's in the parking lot.  When leaning the bike during the turn you should feel the Roker's front wheel want to flop over much more than the race bike.  The geometry which makes the Roker's front wheel want to flop over at slow speed will provide confidence and stability at high speed.

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php

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Mudge

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Reply with quote  #17 
The best $1.5k bike is a used $3k bike
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AlanEsh

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Reply with quote  #18 
I'll reiterate part of someone else's comment further up... mind your tire clearances. Your weight and the kinds of roads you'll be on will play a big part in your bike choice simply based on their tire size/needs.

For the record, I have a Willard and find it to be a pretty good gravel bike. It's stable on the loose stuff (WTB Resolute tires really helped there), but a little on the heavy side. Gearing was too tall when I bought it so I put a bigger cassette on it. Stock wheels were meh, so upgraded those second season I had it. Pretty typical stuff for a "bargain" priced bike.
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langdalek

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Reply with quote  #19 
+1 for the Raleigh Roker Comp. With the SAVE5, Cooperate, and Active Junky discount, you WILL NOT find a better bike! One problem with the Roker Comp...I no longer want to ride my mountain bike because the Roker Comp is so much fun to ride. You have been warned!
Kerry
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