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Old Guy

Member
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Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi there,
I just joined this site, hoping that you guys could help me out, with some advice.
I got into Road bikes, two years ago.....as a means to get in shape, and stay in shape.....and to ride with my Son, who also got into Road Bikes, at the same time.
We both fell in love with the sport, and truly wish....that we both would have  gotten into riding years ago.
What a great sport!
Whether you are riding a Road bike or a Cross Bike or Gravel or MTB, just riding is what it is all about.
Let me say, that I am now in my 60's... LOL ( I still can't believe it! ) ....Yup....before you know it....you guys will all be there, before you even know it.
Time Flies!
By the time, that I have finally dialed in my bike, I will be dead.... and all of you guys will be my age, and going through the same stuff.
OK.....this is what I am wanting your advice on.
I have a Trek 11 speed Road Bike, and I am wanting to stay with my Road Shifters, as they are Sram Reds, and just love them to much to switch them out, for something less.
I had an unexpected  Heart Attack last year, after being Healthy and a Jock for my entire life.
Till I had my "thing", I was doing our local mountains, and some pretty extreme elevation with no real signs of any problems or issues, except that being an Old Guy....climbing was really not my thing, but something that I really enjoyed doing.
If that makes any sense?
We live in a place, where we have some extreme elevation, steep hills and even steeper Mountains to climb.
Where ever we ride to, there is always a few steeps along the way.
So....I am wanting you guys to suggest the best set up for "Me".....in order to continue my riding, but without putting on any extra stress onto the Ticker, than i have to.
No.....me stopping riding is not an Option.....it is something that I Love to do with my Son.
You never ever know, how much time any of us has....to do the things, that we love to do, with those that we Love to do them with.
So I will ride, till I can't ride any more.
I have tried to change the gearing on my bike, to make the steeps that much easier to do.
I have a 50 x 34 Crankset mated to a Sram 11x40 Cassette, using a Long cage Sram derailleur and a Road Link.
It works....kind of!
The shifting is not all that great, as you are always looking for the right gear....no matter what the terrain is like.
You are either too High or too Low.
There is a lot of Chain Slack at times, and I have thrown the chain a few times, due to the excessive slop.
It does work, but not very efficiently or smoothly.
I would Love to have  MTB Gearing set up on my Road Bike, so that I can climb any Wall, with ease.
I would still like to be able to maintain some speed on the Flats, but since I am not a Tour Racer , I could care less about what the Roadies think about my set up, but....I am wanting to go HUGE on my cassette, just for Shits and Giggles....but....I want it to Work.
So, what can you suggest, that will work....with my Road Shifters?
I am thinking about going for a smaller Crank set......may be an FSA 46 x 30  11 speed Crank with an 11 x 40 cassette?
Will that work or help?
I was also thinking about going with a 1x set up....but....have heard so much negative about them, I am not sure, if that would really help me out?
I would like to have the two rings, just for more gears to choose from.
Hey.....they are just Bikes.....how come, no one has come up with, some awesome gear combinations that will work for us OLD guys, and people that are wanting to do the Hills and mountains, without being a Pro Tour rider?
I would love to be able to do a few Hilly Fondo's this year, without killing myself in the process. lol
Can anyone out there, suggest a set up.....that will work for me.
The trial and error thing, gets a little frustrating.
I am just wanting someone to tell me, exactly what I should be using for gears and cranks on my Road bike.....in order to give me a lot more Climbing gears to use on the STEEP hills, while still having some decent speed on the flats.
Is going with a smaller 2x crank the way to go?
I would love to hear, what you guys can come up with....that will actually work for me.
Thanks in advance.
Old Guy


 






 



0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 581
Reply with quote  #2 
Hi - i'm a bit older than you -- 74. I've been doing endurance sports since 1958 -- cycling, running, triathlon. I too struggle with getting a sufficient gear range on my bike for steep long climbs, while also having an efficient and smooth running drive train for flat and rolling terrain. One of the best solutions for this problem is the road triple. I have this setup on my road tandem 52/42/32 in front 12-36 9 speed in the back. I'm using bar-end shifters to make this all work on the tandem. There are however, some high quality 8 and 9 speed road brake shifters available that would work equally well. Unfortunately the road triple format has been virtually abandoned by the main component manufacturers. You can still however, get Shimano triple 8 and 9 speed brake shifters, and compatible derailleurs. You will also have to have a BSA threaded bottom bracket for your cranks. If you want an  even wider gear range, I believe that you can use an 8 or 9 speed mountain bike cassette because the cable pull for mountain and road shifters are compatible.
Update. Shimano offers a 3x10 brake shifter: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-tiagra-4603-triple-10-speed-sti-lever/rp-prod69741 .
I may try this setup if and when I ever build up a Monster Cross bike. Meanwhile, like you, I messing around with my Swiss Cross using a SRAM Red eTap wifli.  By using a Road link, and fiddling with the b-screw and chain length, I've managed to get reasonable result with a 46/36 in front, and an 11-36 in the back.
0
ljsmith

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 231
Reply with quote  #3 
I think you have already figured out that a 46/30 crankset would be ideal for you.  A 46 is more than enough gear for all but competitive racers.  The 30 paired with a 40t rear cog should be plenty of climbing gear.  If not, then you can look into something like the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette.  You can use a Shimano cassette with an SRAM system.  I would also see if you can locate a SRAM 10 speed long cage mountain rear derailleur (the 10 speed will work with 10 or 11 speed road shifters, an 11 speed mountain derailleur will NOT work).  You can even get a Type 2 (with clutch) if you are concerned about chain drop.  This will let you get rid of the road link and should clean up your shifting.  
0
Slim

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #4 
Hi,

You mention a few things you don't like and things you'd want, but could you be more specific about the problems and what you are willing to give up?

You mention poor shifting, so obviously that is one issue.

You also write: "you are always looking for the right gear....no matter what the terrain is like.
You are either too High or too Low"
I take  that to mean you find the jumps between cogs on the cassette to large? Or do you mean the you are always on the edge between the big and small chainring?


So, what we need from you to be able to give you good suggestions is the following three parameters:
  1. Lowest needed gear ratio
  2. highest needed gear ratio
  3. maximum cog jumps(%) in bottom part of cassette
  4. maximum cog jumps(%) in middle of cassette
  5. maximum cog jumps(%) in top part of cassette
A 1x will always have bigger jumps or less range than a double, and a triple will give the widest gear range with the smallest jumps
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 581
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim
Hi,

You mention a few things you don't like and things you'd want, but could you be more specific about the problems and what you are willing to give up?

You mention poor shifting, so obviously that is one issue.

You also write: "you are always looking for the right gear....no matter what the terrain is like.
You are either too High or too Low"
I take  that to mean you find the jumps between cogs on the cassette to large? Or do you mean the you are always on the edge between the big and small chainring?


So, what we need from you to be able to give you good suggestions is the following three parameters:
  1. Lowest needed gear ratio
  2. highest needed gear ratio
  3. maximum cog jumps(%) in bottom part of cassette
  4. maximum cog jumps(%) in middle of cassette
  5. maximum cog jumps(%) in top part of cassette
A 1x will always have bigger jumps or less range than a double, and a triple will give the widest gear range with the smallest jumps

Reasonable points. I would add that another advantage of a triple is the overlap in gear ratios between the chain rings. From a real world riding perspective this means that you will have to make fewer chain ring shifts during a ride. Using my road tandem for example, on rolling terrain and not carrying a lot of baggage, I spend 80-90% of my ride on the middle chain ring, perhaps 10-20% of my time on the small, and probably less than 10% on the large. A typical ride situation would be rolling terrain with moderate short hills and descents. I would just stay on the 42 and have enough gear range to handle the terrain. Or -- if I'm doing a stretch with long climbs and sections which level off occasionally, I would ride the granny and have enough high gear range for the level stretches. This may not seem like a big advantage, but if you are like me, not having to shift the front der. a lot is a big advantage - especially on a long ride. It's sort of like having a trouble free 1x -- but 3 of them!
0
mfrissen

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 4
Reply with quote  #6 
I'd ditch the trek and invest in a proper sporty e-bike. Like a Giant Road E+ for instance. 
Support for when you need it, and you can go nuts on it as well by trying to stay above the support treshold :-)

0
Skldmark

Member
Registered:
Posts: 37
Reply with quote  #7 
Are you even saying that your lowest gear is not LOW enough? Or are you saying that as the wrestling match continues, your opponent seems to get stronger?
0
Old Guy

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #8 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsmith
I think you have already figured out that a 46/30 crankset would be ideal for you.  A 46 is more than enough gear for all but competitive racers.  The 30 paired with a 40t rear cog should be plenty of climbing gear.  If not, then you can look into something like the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette.  You can use a Shimano cassette with an SRAM system.  I would also see if you can locate a SRAM 10 speed long cage mountain rear derailleur (the 10 speed will work with 10 or 11 speed road shifters, an 11 speed mountain derailleur will NOT work).  You can even get a Type 2 (with clutch) if you are concerned about chain drop.  This will let you get rid of the road link and should clean up your shifting.  


Thanks to everyone that has replied so far.
I am leaning towards going with the 46 x 30 Crank.....and using my present 11 x 40 Cassette to go along with it.
One of our friends was asking me, what was it,  that I did not like about the way that it was shifting, with the 50 x 34 Crank coupled with the 11 X 40 cassette?
I guess, me not being to technical, the best way to describe it is.....that it is has way to large a gap, between gears.
Its just messed up, to the point...that you are never ever comfortable in any one zone.
Like I was saying, the area that we live in.....is Elevation City.....we are always climbing something. you just can't avoid it, not that I want to.
So.....for those of you....who live in Table Top Flat type terrain, you might not be able to picture, what it is like, to be constantly changing gears......where ever we choose to ride to.
There is a very good reason that Road Bikes do not come stock with a 50 x 34 - 11 x 40 set up.
It really doesn't work very well.
It works....but....it is really sloppy, and not smooth at all.
When I am on my 34 ring.....my chain is dragging on the frame, when I am climbing....that's how sloppy it is.
I have absolutely No Interest at all, in an E Bike.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd rather Die first.....on my Trek, from pure stubborness, my male pride, and being way to Macho.... to ever ride any thing electric! lol
Thanks for the suggestion.....but....It's just not ever going to happen, not in this Life Time.....that is. lol
I can't believe, that the Bike companies have not clued in yet......that they could have a HUGE surge in Bike Sales, if they were to ever Wake Up, and realize.... that we are not all, the second coming of Lance Armstrong.
Hey....say what you want about Lance.....But  Lance did a lot for this sport, and I Love the guy, regardless of what he did.
Ya.....he Doped ( Big Deal!)....."Everyone" was Doping back then....and he Won 7 TdF's in a row.
I am sure.....that each and everyone of them "Today" is doing something, to gain an advantage, and who can blame them?
Like come on?.......Who can Ride and RACE at that pace....Day in and Day Out....without being on something?
Its just Humanly impossible...to do....what they do!
Everyone Cheats.....and that is what I am looking to do.
I am wanting to Cheat age! lol
My point was......that if the Bike Companies were to finally realize, that there are a lot of Older guys and gals out there, who are now throwing away their Golf Clubs and exchanging them for a Bike, the companies might WAKE UP......and put some Huge gears on their Road Bikes and their Cross Bikes and their Gravel Bikes and their MTB's .....that would make us "all" look good and feel good... about getting out there, and climbing as many Steeps as we can find.....while keeping our BPM's down.
Funny how they can make these Huge Gears for the MTB's......but.....11 x 36 is as Big as it gets for our Road Bike's ......before running into problems, if you go any bigger like I did.
Like WTF are these companies thinking?
They aren't!
Sure......they come out with all the Gimmicks that we all Buy into.
We buy the Carbon Wheels....we buy the Clip In's ....we buy the Power Meters....we buy the Disc Brakes, we buy the E taps.....etc......WHY?
To look Cool, that's about it!
I want to just RIDE!!!!.......I'm done with looking Cool! lol
I want to ride up to some Groovy Roadies Coffee Shop.....with my Flat peddles .....my Cargo Shorts on ....and my MASSIVE Pie Plate sized 11 X 46 or "Bigger" Cassette on the back...and just watch their Faces...as they nudge one another .....as they point to my Old Guys....Climbing Road Bike![rolleyes]
I am sure, that Eddy Merckx must Laugh to himself, when he see's Alberto Contador and every one else on the Tours,  using an 11 x 36 Cassette to get up the same Mountains...that he went up on his Steel bike with, using his  8 X 26 on the back of his old bike.
Things change.....for the Better, most of the time.
WHY should we have to SUFFER, on the Hills?
We are not Pro's!
We have No Sponsors!
We are not getting Paid to Suffer!
We have No Support Crew, carrying all of our Crap!
We all have to get up the next morning....and still go to work!
Grrrrrrrrrrrr WORK!!!!
I want to RIDE! I LOVE to RIDE!
But.....I am wanting to Ride.....without having to KILL myself in the process.
I want to just Ride and Spin the Peddles......UP Hills!
I Suffer enough in my Life, as it is........"Im Married!!! LOL
I am not Lance!
I am not Alberto!
I am not Froomie!
I'm just an OLD Guy....that just wants to RIDE, and Survive the Rides...while enjoying every second of the ride.
The Companies have to realize....that "I" am just ONE, of a Million such Riders out there.
Like come on.....how difficult is it.....to built gears, Cranks and Cassettes to suit us "NON Pro" Riders?
Just because we have lots of Gears.....does not mean....that we will use them all!
They are there.....just in case.
I guess, most Road Bike Riders are Posers, for the most part.
I'm one of them.
Is it really necessary to wear that Kit?
Is it really necessary to wear Clip In's?
Is it really necessary to SUFFER?
NO!
Is it really necessary to be forced to use the same small gears, and the same uncomfortable seats, as the Pro's do?
F%#K That!
We all do it, because we are ALL Posers!
The recent research shows, that Clips in's on Road Bikes or Clip In's on MTB's......do not help!
So......us Posers use them any ways! LOL
I'm Old and getting Older by the day!
I just want to Ride and enjoy it!
I think ......that the 46 X 30 11 Speed Crank with an 11 x 46 Cassette.....will do the Trick?
What do you think?
Is this going to work?
I do not want to go Triple......as that is not suited for an 11 Speed set up.
An E Bike.....is just never ever going to ever Happen......I'd rather Die First! lol
And going 1X, is not the answer either.
I am sure, that in the next year or two or more.....you will see the Pros on Massive Cassettes....its just a matter of time.
They are already on 36's, in some cases.
I tell ya......someone will figure it out......that the Rec Riders NEED HUGE Gears......to keep them in the Sport.
We are NOT Pros.
We should not have to Suffer!
If....you are wanting to really Suffer.....just get Married! LOL
Seriously......that is what Suffering, is all about! LOL
Thanks for all the good advice and Ideas!
Keep them coming! 
We live in a Vertical world!
I need some Big Gears!
Thanks again for the Help.






 



 




 
 

 
 
 

 

0
drwelby

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 268
Reply with quote  #9 
I'm thinking something like a 26-39 mountain bike double crank with an 11-32 cassette. You can see the comparison here. You get tighter gear spacing and a lower low gear, and your new high gear would be just a little bit lower than your old second-highest gear.
0
Old Guy

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwelby
I'm thinking something like a 26-39 mountain bike double crank with an 11-32 cassette. You can see the comparison here. You get tighter gear spacing and a lower low gear, and your new high gear would be just a little bit lower than your old second-highest gear.


Hey thanks for the link to the gear calculator.....that sure helps!
I'm just wondering....if....the 39 Big ring would be big enough for the Flats?
I would drop a lot in speed with the 39.....don't you think?
Where as .....the 26....might have me spinning and going no where......fast?
The numbers on the chart though, look good.
What do you guys think?.......would this set up work with my Sram Reds?
I like the sounds of it, just not sure about the 26?
What do you think?
I think that we are getting close.
Thanks again for the Gear Calculator link.....that  will be a big help.


0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 581
Reply with quote  #11 
I'd just like to add to the tech. concerns expressed by Old Guy. 
- I've always felt that the "50/34 Compact Crank" was a bad idea. The main problem is that there is not enough overlap in the gear ratios between the 2 chain rings. Consequently, you either have to make more frequent shifts between the chain rings (risking chain drops if you are careless or under pressure given the 16 tooth drop); or, as more often the case, you end up cross chaining to avoid a front der. shift. But, the industry jumped on the "compact crank" band wagon, and virtually abandoned the tried and true road triple format, which I believe is a much better solution to the concerns expressed by old guy.
- I also believe, that for many of us the 1x is another bad idea being embraced by the industry. I wont embellish my argument here; but I suggest reading some of JOM's bike reviews in the Gravel Cyclist website. The GC guys strongly prefer 2x drive trains. I do too!

0
drwelby

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 268
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy


I'm just wondering....if....the 39 Big ring would be big enough for the Flats?
I would drop a lot in speed with the 39.....don't you think?




The 39x11 gear is just a little bit lower than your #2 gear at 50x13. So can you survive a ride without ever using your #1 50x11 gear? If so it will probably be fine. If you rarely ever use the #2 gear then you'll be OK. I'm not sure it will work, but you might be able to lock out the 11 tooth cog with the high limit screw and then you can go ride and see if you miss that gear.

If you look at the gear calculator the gap between to 50x11 and 50x13 is huge. At 90 rpm cadence you're looking a jump from 27mph to 33 mph, and that requires pro-level power. If you have long downhills you want to 'diesel' down then you'll probably have to do a bit more coasting.

You can find 28/42 mountain doubles which will give you a little higher gear but then you lose some low gear too. You can get it back with a bigger cassette, but everything bigger than an 11-32 is designed with mountain biking in mind with even gaps across the transmission range. Ideally with a road cassette you have smaller gaps at the higher range to match up with the bigger power jumps of increasing aerodynamic drag.
0
moe53

Member
Registered:
Posts: 39
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy

Ease up on the coffee there old timer. [smile]

Thanks to everyone that has replied so far.
I am leaning towards going with the 46 x 30 Crank.....and using my present 11 x 40 Cassette to go along with it.
One of our friends was asking me, what was it,  that I did not like about the way that it was shifting, with the 50 x 34 Crank coupled with the 11 X 40 cassette?
I guess, me not being to technical, the best way to describe it is.....that it is has way to large a gap, between gears.
Its just messed up, to the point...that you are never ever comfortable in any one zone.
Like I was saying, the area that we live in.....is Elevation City.....we are always climbing something. you just can't avoid it, not that I want to.
So.....for those of you....who live in Table Top Flat type terrain, you might not be able to picture, what it is like, to be constantly changing gears......where ever we choose to ride to.
There is a very good reason that Road Bikes do not come stock with a 50 x 34 - 11 x 40 set up.
It really doesn't work very well.
It works....but....it is really sloppy, and not smooth at all.
When I am on my 34 ring.....my chain is dragging on the frame, when I am climbing....that's how sloppy it is.
I have absolutely No Interest at all, in an E Bike.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd rather Die first.....on my Trek, from pure stubborness, my male pride, and being way to Macho.... to ever ride any thing electric! lol
Thanks for the suggestion.....but....It's just not ever going to happen, not in this Life Time.....that is. lol
I can't believe, that the Bike companies have not clued in yet......that they could have a HUGE surge in Bike Sales, if they were to ever Wake Up, and realize.... that we are not all, the second coming of Lance Armstrong.
Hey....say what you want about Lance.....But  Lance did a lot for this sport, and I Love the guy, regardless of what he did.
Ya.....he Doped ( Big Deal!)....."Everyone" was Doping back then....and he Won 7 TdF's in a row.
I am sure.....that each and everyone of them "Today" is doing something, to gain an advantage, and who can blame them?
Like come on?.......Who can Ride and RACE at that pace....Day in and Day Out....without being on something?
Its just Humanly impossible...to do....what they do!
Everyone Cheats.....and that is what I am looking to do.
I am wanting to Cheat age! lol
My point was......that if the Bike Companies were to finally realize, that there are a lot of Older guys and gals out there, who are now throwing away their Golf Clubs and exchanging them for a Bike, the companies might WAKE UP......and put some Huge gears on their Road Bikes and their Cross Bikes and their Gravel Bikes and their MTB's .....that would make us "all" look good and feel good... about getting out there, and climbing as many Steeps as we can find.....while keeping our BPM's down.
Funny how they can make these Huge Gears for the MTB's......but.....11 x 36 is as Big as it gets for our Road Bike's ......before running into problems, if you go any bigger like I did.
Like WTF are these companies thinking?
They aren't!
Sure......they come out with all the Gimmicks that we all Buy into.
We buy the Carbon Wheels....we buy the Clip In's ....we buy the Power Meters....we buy the Disc Brakes, we buy the E taps.....etc......WHY?
To look Cool, that's about it!
I want to just RIDE!!!!.......I'm done with looking Cool! lol
I want to ride up to some Groovy Roadies Coffee Shop.....with my Flat peddles .....my Cargo Shorts on ....and my MASSIVE Pie Plate sized 11 X 46 or "Bigger" Cassette on the back...and just watch their Faces...as they nudge one another .....as they point to my Old Guys....Climbing Road Bike![rolleyes]
I am sure, that Eddy Merckx must Laugh to himself, when he see's Alberto Contador and every one else on the Tours,  using an 11 x 36 Cassette to get up the same Mountains...that he went up on his Steel bike with, using his  8 X 26 on the back of his old bike.
Things change.....for the Better, most of the time.
WHY should we have to SUFFER, on the Hills?
We are not Pro's!
We have No Sponsors!
We are not getting Paid to Suffer!
We have No Support Crew, carrying all of our Crap!
We all have to get up the next morning....and still go to work!
Grrrrrrrrrrrr WORK!!!!
I want to RIDE! I LOVE to RIDE!
But.....I am wanting to Ride.....without having to KILL myself in the process.
I want to just Ride and Spin the Peddles......UP Hills!
I Suffer enough in my Life, as it is........"Im Married!!! LOL
I am not Lance!
I am not Alberto!
I am not Froomie!
I'm just an OLD Guy....that just wants to RIDE, and Survive the Rides...while enjoying every second of the ride.
The Companies have to realize....that "I" am just ONE, of a Million such Riders out there.
Like come on.....how difficult is it.....to built gears, Cranks and Cassettes to suit us "NON Pro" Riders?
Just because we have lots of Gears.....does not mean....that we will use them all!
They are there.....just in case.
I guess, most Road Bike Riders are Posers, for the most part.
I'm one of them.
Is it really necessary to wear that Kit?
Is it really necessary to wear Clip In's?
Is it really necessary to SUFFER?
NO!
Is it really necessary to be forced to use the same small gears, and the same uncomfortable seats, as the Pro's do?
F%#K That!
We all do it, because we are ALL Posers!
The recent research shows, that Clips in's on Road Bikes or Clip In's on MTB's......do not help!
So......us Posers use them any ways! LOL
I'm Old and getting Older by the day!
I just want to Ride and enjoy it!
I think ......that the 46 X 30 11 Speed Crank with an 11 x 46 Cassette.....will do the Trick?
What do you think?
Is this going to work?
I do not want to go Triple......as that is not suited for an 11 Speed set up.
An E Bike.....is just never ever going to ever Happen......I'd rather Die First! lol
And going 1X, is not the answer either.
I am sure, that in the next year or two or more.....you will see the Pros on Massive Cassettes....its just a matter of time.
They are already on 36's, in some cases.
I tell ya......someone will figure it out......that the Rec Riders NEED HUGE Gears......to keep them in the Sport.
We are NOT Pros.
We should not have to Suffer!
If....you are wanting to really Suffer.....just get Married! LOL
Seriously......that is what Suffering, is all about! LOL
Thanks for all the good advice and Ideas!
Keep them coming! 
We live in a Vertical world!
I need some Big Gears!
Thanks again for the Help.






 



 




 
 

 
 
 

 


__________________
Enlightenment begins where the pavement ends. [idea]
0
Old Guy

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #14 
Errrrrrr.....Its good for all of us, that I don't drink coffee! lol
0
Old Guy

Member
Registered:
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwelby


The 39x11 gear is just a little bit lower than your #2 gear at 50x13. So can you survive a ride without ever using your #1 50x11 gear? If so it will probably be fine. If you rarely ever use the #2 gear then you'll be OK. I'm not sure it will work, but you might be able to lock out the 11 tooth cog with the high limit screw and then you can go ride and see if you miss that gear.

If you look at the gear calculator the gap between to 50x11 and 50x13 is huge. At 90 rpm cadence you're looking a jump from 27mph to 33 mph, and that requires pro-level power. If you have long downhills you want to 'diesel' down then you'll probably have to do a bit more coasting.


You can find 28/42 mountain doubles which will give you a little higher gear but then you lose some low gear too. You can get it back with a bigger cassette, but everything bigger than an 11-32 is designed with mountain biking in mind with even gaps across the transmission range. Ideally with a road cassette you have smaller gaps at the higher range to match up with the bigger power jumps of increasing aerodynamic drag.


Good questions.
Well....since the Crank is a 50 x 34.....I use them both.....equally.
Our terrain is all screwed up.....where we can be on the Flats one minute, and Climbing the next.
So I do use my 50 the majority of the time, as the 34 is just to small to to be using any where but on the Steeps.
That is why, I went for the 11 x 40 Cassette, for more Climbing gears....but....the gaps are to big.
May be.....changing the Crank is the way to go?
The 50 x 34 Crank can not really handle the 11 x 40 cassette.


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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #16 
To me, you need to decide first the highest gear ratio that you want since you have climb a lot and don't want to die as you said! Then look at different option and make a decision for what you want more;

- The ONLY way you will address the high gap between gears is to change your cassette for a 11-28, 11-32 or 11-36. Just determine what gap is acceptable for you.

-Then you can determine which chainring accordingly.

-But it's all about compromise. Thightest gaps you'll get is with 11-28, but even with a cross crank, your highest gear might not be high enough for you. I really don't know if a mtb crank will fir on your bike. Most are double or single now and your lowest gear maybe  wouldn't suit your riding




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dangle

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
The 50 x 34 Crank can not really handle the 11 x 40 cassette.

I think ......that the 46 X 30 11 Speed Crank with an 11 x 46 Cassette.....will do the Trick?


Well, yeah the 50x34 crank won't handle the 11x40 cassette. The Roadlink site and packaging very clearly say that a CRANK tooth difference of 10 teeth is the max you can have when doing a 2x with an 11-40 cassette. If you want to keep the 11-40 cassette, the 46x30 crank option will be just as poor performing. A 46x30 crank with an 11-46 cassette would never come close to working.....ever. A 46x36 cyclocross crank is the biggest you could do. It has nothing to do with the Roadlink and not really the crank. The rear derailleur can only manage so much chain. It depends which one you have, but I'm guessing if it's truly a 'long cage' then it's a 10 speed mountain bike rear derailleur (which work well with 11 speed because it's the same cable pull) because there isn't a 2x compatible SRAM (road) rear derailleur in a long cage that I'm aware of. If so, the 'chain wrap capacity' is likely 40 teeth (or maybe even 39). That means the most chain it can manage has to total 40 or less. 11-40 cassette equal 29 teeth and your 50-34 crank adds 16 which makes it 45. 5 teeth over the maximum it can handle which is why the chain is 'sloppy'. No rear derailleur made will solve this, you either need a smaller range crank or smaller range cassette if you stick with 2x. Another note about using a derailleur with a Roadlink, they are very sensitive to how aligned your derailleur hanger is. Make sure to have your hanger aligned before using a Roadlink, even if it's a new bike or it 'looks' good. I don't know anything about 46x30 cranks to even say if one would fit your current bike.

If the jumps/gaps between gears is something you really don't like, then a 1x probably isn't for you. Do you find yourself using the 34 front and 40 rear combo? If yes, do you feel like you need to go lower?

I'm a cat 3 racer and my gravel/cx bike and road training bike only have a 40 tooth 1x up front. It's plenty of gear for everything but road racing or very fast group rides. I probably hit the 32 in back as often as the 11, so 40 is about perfect up front for me. 50 front and 11 rear is 29mph at a fairly slow 80 rpm. 90rpm puts you at 33 mph where you're probably better off tucking in than pedaling. Not many people need a 50 front. Even a 38 x 11 is still getting you up to 27-28mph at the occasional 100 rpm sprint.

Using that gear calculator is a good idea. I like the one Sheldon Brown does at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html a little better. Focus on how low of gearing you need. It's really unusual to see somebody go much under 25 gear inches unless they are doing loaded touring.

Long story short, the 46x30 crank with an 11-32 is still going to give you wicked top end, come fairly close to your 34x40 lowest gear, have smaller gaps in between shifts, shift better than your current setup and eliminate the need for the Roadlink which *may* also help with shifting. An 11-36 SRAM cassette would give you a slightly lower low gear, but have slightly higher gaps in between gears. One of those beautiful new XT cranks in a 38x28 would fit any Trek and mixing it with an 11-32 would be much smaller gaps. 38 x 11 gets you into the mid 20mph range at 90rpm and the 28x32 low gear is an exact match for your current 34x40 low gear. 

It's all compromises.

EDIT: Crank, not cassette. Long week!
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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #18 

That's another good reason to run 46/36 up front. I have an 11-40 with a shimano medium cage der. on my Haanjo and 46/36 chain rings -- works very well with the Roadlink. Had to use every link in a new SRAM 11 speed chain to make it work though. the 36/11 had a bit too much chain slack --- but I never use that gear. I could shift to the 46/40 in a forgetful moment, another gear I usually don't use, with destroying the rear der.
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Old Guy

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh

That's another good reason to run 46/36 up front. I have an 11-40 with a shimano medium cage der. on my Haanjo and 46/36 chain rings -- works very well with the Roadlink. Had to use every link in a new SRAM 11 speed chain to make it work though. the 36/11 had a bit too much chain slack --- but I never use that gear. I could shift to the 46/40 in a forgetful moment, another gear I usually don't use, with destroying the rear der.


OK....I have been talked into buying a 46x30 Crank set.
Next question for you?
You the Hell makes them?
I saw one that Velo Orange or something like that makes ??.....but....it looks really CHEAP.
I'd never put crap onto my bike.
Everyone talks about 46x30.....but.....who sells them or makes them?
I'm all in on buying one.
On that note....someone asked me, what Ring I rode in, most of the time.
On my ride today, I paid closer attention to where I was at.
When I am Fresh and have lots of energy.....I prefer to be on my 50 ring.
Even on the Hills, I can Power up most of them, on my Big ring...using my 11x40 cassette.
When I am tired and drained, struggling home on my 34 Small ring, is the one, that I am in, on even the slightest grade.....due to being Burnt out.
Ya.....as I get in better shape, I will have more Power and Endurance at the end of my rides.
But....for now, I think that going with the Smaller  46/30 Cranks set and a Smaller 11x36 cassette or 11x32, will be the way to go, for my kind of riding.
But......I'm looking for a Supplier of such a crank set.
Sram and Shimano certainly do not make them.
Does any one know.....where I can buy my New Crank?
Your help and advice has been a HUGE....to sorting out my Climbing issues.
Thanks so much! 


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drwelby

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Reply with quote  #20 
There's a big list in this thread.

If you want modern looking options your best bets are:

Rotor 3D+, 3D30 and FLOW with 30/46 No-Q spider ring 
Sugino OX601D or OX901D
FSA Adventure Tempo SL-K



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Old Guy

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwelby
There's a big list in this thread.

If you want modern looking options your best bets are:

Rotor 3D+, 3D30 and FLOW with 30/46 No-Q spider ring 
Sugino OX601D or OX901D
FSA Adventure Tempo SL-K

Thats Great...we are getting a lot closer.
What I am needing to know is......"WHERE"?....can I buy the FSA 46x30 Crank from???
It seems pretty clear that companies are making these cranks....but....so far...I have not found any Suppliers or Sellers of these Cranks?
Does any one know.....exactly where I can get them from and "WHO" is actually selling them?
I'm wanting to buy one.
Thanks


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Old Guy

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks again for the info.
The crank set that I am going with is the FSA 46x30 11 speed.
The Tempo Adventure that you suggested is only for a 9 speed.
This is the one, that should do the trick.
http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/discipline/road/sl-k-modular-bb386evo-crankset-3703
It will be nice to be able to go with a much smaller cassette, and still have the ability to climb.
Thanks to everyone, for all of your help.
Old Guy
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dangle

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Posts: 122
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
The crank set that I am going with is the FSA 46x30 11 speed.
This is the one, that should do the trick.
http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/discipline/road/sl-k-modular-bb386evo-crankset-3703
Old Guy


Which Trek do you have? Specifically, which bottom bracket? Trek likes to use bottom brackets that are wider than the crank you are looking at.
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Old Guy

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Which Trek do you have? Specifically, which bottom bracket? Trek likes to use bottom brackets that are wider than the crank you are looking at.


Good question.
I have a Trek Emonda and the BB is a BB90.
You are right, it is wide, but it appears that the FSA Crank comes with various adapters, to make the mating process possible.
So they say.
From what I read about the Crank, it seemed as if it would fit.
Thanks for the heads up, I will have to research that, a little closer.
Thanks again.

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PoolBoyMatt

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #25 
Hey Old Guy, 
Do you have a Trek Emonda ALR or a Trek Emonda S/SL/SLR? 

If you have carbon will have a braze on front derailleur. Trek did not design this to be compatible with REALLY low gearing, meaning you will have a real problem lowering the front der enough to shift those smaller rings properly.

I work at a big Trek shop in Denver and we run into this semi-regularly. My buddy is a low-gear aficionado and works with me. His Sugino crank ticks off so many boxes for our customers but you can't make the der low enough to jive with a 46.
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