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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'm looking for a second gravel disc wheel set for my new 44 Huntsman custom steel gravel bike. Since I already purchased a custom hand built wheel set as my regular ride, I'm looking for a less expensive utility wheel set to mount heavier lugged tires to use to bash around on in wet weather, rocky unmaintained roads etc. While my custom hand built wheels are more than sturdy enough to handle almost anything I can throw at them, I have light weight tubeless tires mounted on them. Swapping tubeless tires is a PITA. Having a second wheel set makes sense. I saw this review of the Hunt 4 Seasons awhile ago on Gravel Cyclist: http://www.gravelcyclist.com/bicycle-tech/review-hunt-four-season-gravel-disc-wheelset/ . They come with all sorts of goodies and bits so that they can be set up for TA or QR, and are designed to be tubeless. The price is very good including shipping from UK. Almost too good? Does anyone have any experience with this company and these wheels to share? Any other comparably priced gravel disc wheels that you could suggest?
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mr_slow

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Reply with quote  #2 
I recently purchased a 650b wheelset from them, and they seemed like good wheels, the seam was a little untidy, but overall it seemed like a good build. Mine arrived a bit beat up from shipping, but when I asked Hunt about it, they said take them to a shop and have them trued, and they'd cover that. They also took the WTB Byways and set up tubeless with no sealant in them, which held pressure for a couple hours. I ended up shipping them back, as they did not not measure up to the 20mm internal width, 25mm external width, they were about a 1mm smaller, both internal and external, which was not what I was looking for. This thin profile of the hoop, gave the Byway's a 43.xx mm width. 
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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #3 
Support US builders, there's plenty of us here. 

H Plus Son Hydra rims
Bitex BX106 hubs
Sapim Force spokes

$550 shipped 

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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hey - thanks for the feedback. I'm convinced - even for utility wheels - I'll buy local!. And, from a good local builder, almost certainly better than something from a factory. 
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridemagnetic
Support US builders, there's plenty of us here. 

H Plus Son Hydra rims
Bitex BX106 hubs
Sapim Force spokes

$550 shipped 


You took the words right out of my mouth. [biggrin][wink]

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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #6 
Of course I am biased, so let's get that out of the way.

I believe the Hunt 4 Season wheels use a Kinlin XR31T disc rim, which as mr_slow noted, is 24mm wide and 19mm internal.  Yes, it is not the most refined rim, and a little on the heavier side, but I actually like it.  I suspect the hubs are made by Novatec, and the spokes would be Pillar.  It seems like the wheels are built in Asia.  It is for these reasons, I believe, the cost is so low.  As attractive as they seem to be, especially for the price point, I think one can do better with the same or not a great deal more expense.  From a "local".

bobknh, some Kinlin TL-21's laced to Powerway hubs with Sapim race would only set you back maybe $360 plus shipping, and should handle the job as your knock around bigger tire wheel set.  



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coffee

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Reply with quote  #7 
I ordered the MASON x HUNT 4Season Disc and they just came in. They are a bit lighter than the HUNT 4Season Gravel Disc. I weigh 160, so the lighter rims seemed a better fit. Condition was good. The box was fine and the wheels had no visible damage. They spun perfectly and the tension seems good. I easily converted the front axle to 12mm from the 9mm it shipped with. Unfortunately, I forgot to order the 12mm rear axle for the rear conversion, so I'm waiting on that before I ride them. Note that rear conversion requires a 17mm spanner. The Vitroria Terreno Drys that I'm putting on them aren't in yet either.

1585g for alloy wheels at this price point seemed a good way to go. I have yet to see a set of carbon gravel wheels worth the price. Reviews of Hunt wheels have been good. I didn't have any shipping or assembly delays. The last thing that sold me on them was the anti bite guard on the alloy freehub. I've seen this on the American Classic hubs, but the Ritchey and Kinesis wheelsets I was also considering didn't have this (both of those sets were also more $$). 

As soon as I do the tubeless setup, I'll add more. As well as when I get them out on dirt.

EDIT: TBH, If I had seen this forum before ordering, I probably would have gone with the build ridemagnetic listed. I did some poking and that hub/rim combo looks really smart and would have been a better choice. :-/
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #8 
The Hunt wheels look good.  Not gonna lie.  If I wasn't a wheel builder, and didn't know any, I'd buy them, too.   


Here is what the new Bitex freehubs look like.  

FH210-ANTIBITE-2.jpg  Every Bitex hub has these now.  

The rims on the Mason x Hunt look suspiciously like DT R460.  Hmm.

I just added up -- Bitex C-lock hubs, spokes, DT R460's - 1583g.  Hmmm.  And for $490, with CX Rays.  But no spoke wrench.


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coffee

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Reply with quote  #9 
The rim cross section on the Hunt rims looks identical to the DT R460s. Nice catch.

I found it interesting that Bitex sells ti freehub bodies for their rear hubs. I haven't seen many of these outside of White and Dura Ace.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee
The rim cross section on the Hunt rims looks identical to the DT R460s. Nice catch.

I found it interesting that Bitex sells ti freehub bodies for their rear hubs. I haven't seen many of these outside of White and Dura Ace.


Holy cow!  I didn't know about the ti freehubs.  That's a brand new thing.

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
The Hunt wheels look good.  Not gonna lie.  If I wasn't a wheel builder, and didn't know any, I'd buy them, too.   


Here is what the new Bitex freehubs look like.  

FH210-ANTIBITE-2.jpg  Every Bitex hub has these now.  

The rims on the Mason x Hunt look suspiciously like DT R460.  Hmm.

I just added up -- Bitex C-lock hubs, spokes, DT R460's - 1583g.  Hmmm.  And for $490, with CX Rays.  But no spoke wrench.


Oleritter I am pretty sure I didn't see it here but I believe I saw it over at Bike Forums that the Bitex has the o ring which looks like the orange o ring in this pic(or is this a bearing) that leaks in water and crude. Is this true and have you had this problem on any of your builds with the bitex hubs?

Thanks
Zman

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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


Oleritter I am pretty sure I didn't see it here but I believe I saw it over at Bike Forums that the Bitex has the o ring which looks like the orange o ring in this pic(or is this a bearing) that leaks in water and crude. Is this true and have you had this problem on any of your builds with the bitex hubs?

Thanks
Zman


The orange you see is the seal of a bearing on the backside of the freehub.  No, we have not really seen any water or dirt getting into the freehub pawl area, and have put some of these hubs through some pretty dirty and wet conditions.  

We did just replace our first bearing, though.  It was the outboard non drive bearing of a road hub.  We think the bearing got some water ingress during a really rainy and long gravel ride this early spring.  I also think people tend to forget about all the road spray when the bikes are transported in the rain.  The bearing became rough, but then pretty smooth again, but developed some play.  We replaced the bearing with a stainless version.

So, so far in our experience, not really.  Can you share with me the link to that discussion, though?

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter


The orange you see is the seal of a bearing on the backside of the freehub.  No, we have not really seen any water or dirt getting into the freehub pawl area, and have put some of these hubs through some pretty dirty and wet conditions.  

We did just replace our first bearing, though.  It was the outboard non drive bearing of a road hub.  We think the bearing got some water ingress during a really rainy and long gravel ride this early spring.  I also think people tend to forget about all the road spray when the bikes are transported in the rain.  The bearing became rough, but then pretty smooth again, but developed some play.  We replaced the bearing with a stainless version.

So, so far in our experience, not really.  Can you share with me the link to that discussion, though?


My bad oleritter and shows you how much I know about components. I went to Bike Forums and now remember they were talking about Hope hubs not Bitex. Sorry for the confusion.

Zman

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coffee

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Reply with quote  #14 
Since we've safely derailed the thread from Hunt to Bitex, I also have a few questions about the Bitex hubs.

How's the pawl sound? Shimano quiet or I9 loud?

Does anyone know the pickup/engagement degree?

How's the side preload? Does it pick up any play?

How's bearing replacement?

Just black?

For the straight pull hubs, what's the mandatory cross? 2x? (Yes, I know the wheel builders here will wince at straight pull. But let's assume bladed spokes)



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ridemagnetic

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee
Since we've safely derailed the thread from Hunt to Bitex, I also have a few questions about the Bitex hubs.

How's the pawl sound? Shimano quiet or I9 loud?


Middle ground sound. Closer to a White Industries 48t
 
Quote:
Does anyone know the pickup/engagement degree?


10 deg, 6 pawls, 24t drive ring.

Quote:
How's the side preload? Does it pick up any play?


If adjusted right, not really. I use Bitex in all the standard Rodeo Labs builds for the last 3 years and haven't heard of any issues. 

Quote:
How's bearing replacement?


Rear 4, fhub 6902x2 shell 6802x1 and 6902x1. Front 6902x2. 

Quote:
Just black?


black, blue, red, and silver

Quote:
For the straight pull hubs, what's the mandatory cross? 2x? (Yes, I know the wheel builders here will wince at straight pull. But let's assume bladed spokes)


Building for 30 years and no wincing about straight pull, I build tons. DT mostly though. I don't have access to Bitex straight pull unless I'm satisfying a MOQ. Cross is built into the design. Typically 2x, but there's some odd ones out there that will do a 3x 28h. 


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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee


Just black?

They also come in green now, the 6 bolt version. 

BX211F-2T.jpg 







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coffee

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Reply with quote  #17 
Finished the 9mm to 12mm axle swap both front and rear on the Hunts. Easy stuff. Good instructions. Next update will be mounting the new tires.

Candy apple green! Okay, okay, I'm sold on the next set! (But black or silver will be fine.)
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coffee

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Reply with quote  #18 
side.JPG


 

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coffee

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Reply with quote  #19 
So as you can see from the above photo, the new Vittoria Terreno Dry's have been mounted to the new set of Mason Hunts. The tubeless mounting set up pretty well. The bead was tight enough to give me confidence but not so tight that I started swearing while getting them on. The bead set evenly without me having to knead it. Only a small bit of sealant showed up around the rim.

One might notice that I also switched from the stock TRP rotors (160 front and rear) to Shimano Ice Tech rotors (160 front and 140 rear). I also swapped the rear TRP out for a flat mount.

Some notes about the Vittorias. The sidewalls mandate a hooked rim and a minimum pressure of 45 psi when being mounted tubeless. (I have them both at 90 psi right now to set them up.). They are the 32s btw.

Overall I'm satisfied so far and have no complaints. Now to see how they ride.

Edit: A sharp eye might also notice that the hoods, seatpost, and seat have also been swapped out from stock. The aluminum seatpost and cro-moly rail seat the Diamondback came with were super harsh. So that's why there's now a carbon seatpost and titanium railed seat.


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HollyBoni

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Reply with quote  #20 

Hunt uses Novatec hubs on pretty much all of their wheelsets, and the aluminium rims come from Kinlin. At least that's what i've heard a few times and I think even the guys at Hunt said it somewhere. 

I bought a pair of 4 Season Gravel Disc wheels about two months ago. Mixed feelings. First off, I paid deposit for the wheels, waited for a while, but they forgot to send me the second invoice for the full amount... [biggrin] Luckily I noticed in time that for some reason the same wheels I was waiting for were available up on their website and I contacted them. 

The wheels look really good and perform great, i've had a few issues with the rear hub. 

Sometimes when I coast and start pedalling again there is a very loud "click" noise, I think it comes from the freehub. The pawls don't skip so it's mostly just an annoying sound.

I also noticed when I spin the axle with my hand the freehub body wobbles... But when it's in the bike I don't see any wobbling while freewheeling or pedalling.

I wrote to Hunt, they sent me a new freehub body and axle for free with no questions asked so that's pretty good. But sadly that did not fix the issue. It's a small issue but it still bothers me. I'm just too stoked to ride my new bike right now so I don't want to send the wheels back for warranty yet. 

The rear wheel also went a little bit out of true after the first few rides but i've done some rocky offroad descends  with 37mm tyres.

I think I was just simply unlucky with my set, but overall they are pretty good hoops if you look at the price and weight. It's also great that you can swap out the axles for cheap and you have the option for an XD cassette body. I've had a hard time finding a wheelset that was in my price range and had a standard QR 135mm rear hub with an XD driver. Most of the wheelsets I could find were much heavier MTB wheels with thru axles. 

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coffee

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Reply with quote  #21 
Did you get the Hunts or the Mason Hunts? I think the Mason Hunts are a bit lighter but also have a lower weight restriction. I haven't seen the wobbly freehub body, but I'll look today. Did you do a rear axle swap? If so, did you use a torque wrench on the 17mm axle caps? 
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HollyBoni

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Reply with quote  #22 

I have the 4 Season Gravel Discs, not the Mason Hunts. So the heavier, wider version. I think the hubs are the same. 

I did do the rear axle swap, sadly I don't have a torque wrench. [frown] But I tried to play with different tightnesses and the freehub always wobbles. But it only does it if I have the rear wheel out of the bike and I just spin the axle with my hand. It's pretty strange. 

It had the same wobble before I touched the axle tho.

 

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coffee

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Reply with quote  #23 
Well, even if you had a torque wrench, you would need a 17mm crowfoot - which aren't exactly laying around. I checked my rear wheel - no wobble in the freehub. I didn't take the cassette off, but it all looks pretty straight to me. I agree the hubs are the same between the wheelsets. IIRC, the freehub just inserts into the shell, right? I think I remember it popping off on me during the axle swap. I don't know.
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HollyBoni

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Reply with quote  #24 

Yeah the freehub body just slides into the hub and the axle holds it all together, it's pretty simple. On mine you can see the whole cassette wobbling as you rotate the axle, but I have a 10-42 cassette so with the huge cog it's pretty easy to see. 

The worst part is that I have no idea what's causing it. [biggrin] My best guess is that somehow the inner race of the drive side bearing is not as precise as it should be and as it rotates it makes the freehub wobble. I doubt that both of the axles and freehub bodies I have are faulty. 

 

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coffee

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Reply with quote  #25 
What size axle? IIRC, the axle slides through the freehub body and the freehub body sits on the axle with bearings? How could the freehub body wobble unless the axle was bent?

Could there be a bad bearing in the freehub body?

I actually have no idea what I'm talking about, so this isn't really me helping.
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