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Zurichman

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I have been reading all the tire selection Knowledge that I can. The only tires I have tried yet is the Kenda Flintridge Pro in 40 mm and 2 different sets of Clement MSO xplor one was tubeless ready and the other wasn't I rode the Pony Express 75 miler with the Flintridge Pros on my Tamland 1 with no problems.

I have little knowledge of gravel tires.

On my Stock Roker Comp now it has the Clement MSO xplor stock set up as tubeless. I weigh 200 lbs right now and am running 40 rear and 35 lbs up front.

This is kind of what I think/know. I did the Funks Bottom gravel ride/race yesterday in Ohio. It had lots of climbs with lots of downhills. Like all rides it had some variety but for the most part was large gravel stones. The first part of the ride the rear felt like it was losing traction on the downhills or that the wheel was coming off. The 2nd half the front wheel was breaking loose. I was going way too fast down one hill and never made it to a stop at a stop sign and can be glad that a car wasn't coming.

Kenda was there sponsoring the ride and so I had a chance to talk to one of their reps after the ride. He recommended I run 40 mm Flintridge Pro's up front and a 35 mm Flintridge Alluvinn on the rear which is suppose to be available in 4-5 weeks I think. I really need to get this bike set up for loose gravel/ He also said that the Flintridge Pro was an upgrade from the style design of the Clement MSO xplor with the MS0 tire being an all around good tire but mainly more for hard packed roads/gravel. Oh yeah he gave me a one time use of 25% off coupon for their website.

What has anybody else used in loose gravel and works for them. I have seen mentioned of Schwalbe G Ones but there are so many tread designs I have no clue which one anybody is talking about.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have another race in about 3 weeks
Gravel Race up Spruce Knob in WV

Thanks
Zman

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monkeyrider

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Reply with quote  #2 
The chunkier the gravel or for more rugged road conditions, I would go with the biggest tire I can run. I'm not sure why he recommended a 35c tire if you are currently running a 40. Maybe the Alluvinn is only available in a 35 and it has a more aggressive tread pattern. 

You might look at the WTB Nano 40. I just bought a set of WTB Riddler 45s. Not sure if they'd fit on a Tamland. I've used the Clement MSO 40 and the Conti Speed 42s. Both are great but don't have a lot of traction. I like them because they are high volume and roll fast.

PSI is something you have to experiment with for the conditions and your size.  
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chas

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Reply with quote  #3 
Zman,

I like having a front tire with a little more bite sometimes when I’m doing mostly gravel. 

Some possible tire combos:

Maxis rambler rear, Maxis Ravenger front

G-One all around rear, G-one Bite front  (you basically have 3 choices – slick, all around, and more aggressive “bite”)

Gravel king SK rear, Gravel King mud front (although that is more for wet conditions)

The combinations are endless.  Personally I don’t worry too much about knobs in the center, it’s the knobs on the edges that I want.  Bicycle Quarterly stated that you don’t need knobs at all on gravel, you just need volume.  But in my experience, the breakaway characteristics are MUCH different with knobs.  Slick tires give out suddenly, knobs are more progressive and easier to catch.

 

That said – in my case it is more about technique.  I used to race mountain bikes in all conditions on semi slicks.  Concentrating on a really smooth cadence and smooth bike handling, I could do just  about anything I needed to. 

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Mark_Landsaat

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyrider
You might look at the WTB Nano 40. I just bought a set of WTB Riddler 45s. Not sure if they'd fit on a Tamland. 


I'm going to say that fit should work out OK, maybe a little tight but doable. Brian Fornes, the Raleigh marketing guy at the time (around 2014/15) did a Bellingham MTB ride on a Tamland with some 29x1.9" Knobby MTB tires. about 48mm wide

Now those did not exactly fit though. We had to clip a few of the larger side knobs to clear everything, but both Brian and the bike made it to the other end of the MTB ride safely.

Always fun to experiment!
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyrider
The chunkier the gravel or for more rugged road conditions, I would go with the biggest tire I can run. I'm not sure why he recommended a 35c tire if you are currently running a 40. Maybe the Alluvinn is only available in a 35 and it has a more aggressive tread pattern. 

You might look at the WTB Nano 40. I just bought a set of WTB Riddler 45s. Not sure if they'd fit on a Tamland. I've used the Clement MSO 40 and the Conti Speed 42s. Both are great but don't have a lot of traction. I like them because they are high volume and roll fast.

PSI is something you have to experiment with for the conditions and your size.  


monkeyrider thanks for the feedback. I have seen other people saying this and what they are saying I think is run 40 on the front for bite and then run 35 on the back for speed as you don't need as much bite then. I don't know how many people do that though.

All the discussion is for my Roker Comp which I think has the same fit as the Tamland 1

BTW the Alluvinn that he had at the race looked more like a cross between a slick and a gravel tire. 

Zman

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
Zman,

I like having a front tire with a little more bite sometimes when I’m doing mostly gravel. 

Some possible tire combos:

Maxis rambler rear, Maxis Ravenger front

G-One all around rear, G-one Bite front  (you basically have 3 choices – slick, all around, and more aggressive “bite”)

Gravel king SK rear, Gravel King mud front (although that is more for wet conditions)

The combinations are endless.  Personally I don’t worry too much about knobs in the center, it’s the knobs on the edges that I want.  Bicycle Quarterly stated that you don’t need knobs at all on gravel, you just need volume.  But in my experience, the breakaway characteristics are MUCH different with knobs.  Slick tires give out suddenly, knobs are more progressive and easier to catch.

 

That said – in my case it is more about technique.  I used to race mountain bikes in all conditions on semi slicks.  Concentrating on a really smooth cadence and smooth bike handling, I could do just  about anything I needed to. 



Chas and Mark thanks for your response as I posted above we are talking above my Roker Comp/ The Tamland 1 has or will be my beater bike go out in the rain and or bike touring when I decide to do that maybe this Fall on the C & O Canal.

Chas let me throw some more questions to you so you can give me a more informed answer. I threw the Kenda Flintridge Pro on The Tamland 1 for the Pony Express 75 miler. At the beginning of the ride I worried about the tires but as the race wore on I just left the bike/tire run wherever it wanted to go. I had no trouble with the tires breaking loose on the loose gravel. At the ride Sat. there was lots of loose heavy gravel. The bike tires keep breaking loose and I couldn't handle the bike. I had to slow the bike down to keep from crashing and lots of times I was grabbing the brakes so hard I either had cramps in my hands or I had no control of the bike. The one time I blew thru that stop sign it scared the jeebers out of me.

I am already get a set or accumulation of tires that I am not using. I have the non tubeless Clement MSO Xplor that I took off the Tamland 1. If I did the same with the other set of tubeless Clements MSO xplor on the Roker I would have 2 set of tires laying around. What I thought I might do is put the Clements from the Roker over on to the Tamland and then put one of the Kenda Flintridge Pro on the Roker and look for a tire for the rear of the Roker.

Chas I do remember you saying about putting the Ramblers on the front and the Avengers on the rear. Have you ever done 40 on the front for bite and 35 or 38 on the rear for speed.

I will always be setting up the Roker for gravel only as I have a sweet climbing road bike.

I probably will  have a set of wheels built over the winter and the set on there now will be make a mud tire/wheel set up.

Any thoughts of what would work on the rear with the Flintridge Pro?

Thanks for the help and the suggestions.

Zman

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Durt

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Reply with quote  #7 
Wow, you're 200 and running 35 and 40psi? I did a race on very rough gravel this weekend at 40psi on the rear and bottomed it twice when I only weigh 163. I usually run about 35 but went to 40 due to how rough it was. I've had really good luck with a Kenda Small Block 8 in a 35 tubeless and now with Maxxis Rambler 40's tubeless. Like the maxxis over the kenda. 

Could you talk about what you mean by 'felt like the rear was losing traction downhill'? If breaking loose while climbing, try to stay seated. 

Front wheel breaking loose could be a matter of technique. When the gravel is loose and deep, you kind of have to let the bike drive itself. Loose grip on the bars and just go with it. Don't fight it and try to wrestle it around and steer it. Just go with the little weaves side to side, just follow the bike where it wants to go while keeping steady pressure/cadence. Within reason of course if there are others close around you. Like riding in sand. Descending in loose conditions, get your weight off the seat and back, use primarily the rear brake and feather it. Try to stay off the front brake or use it lightly. 

Fatter tire up front will give you more cushion and you can run a lower pressure for more grip. Some friends of mine do the 40c in front, 35c in rear. Panaracer Gravel King is the most popular tire around here. Maxxis Ramblers a close second. 

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durt
Wow, you're 200 and running 35 and 40psi? I did a race on very rough gravel this weekend at 40psi on the rear and bottomed it twice when I only weigh 163. I usually run about 35 but went to 40 due to how rough it was. I've had really good luck with a Kenda Small Block 8 in a 35 tubeless and now with Maxxis Rambler 40's tubeless. Like the maxxis over the kenda. 

Could you talk about what you mean by 'felt like the rear was losing traction downhill'? If breaking loose while climbing, try to stay seated. 

Front wheel breaking loose could be a matter of technique. When the gravel is loose and deep, you kind of have to let the bike drive itself. Loose grip on the bars and just go with it. Don't fight it and try to wrestle it around and steer it. Just go with the little weaves side to side, just follow the bike where it wants to go while keeping steady pressure/cadence. Within reason of course if there are others close around you. Like riding in sand. Descending in loose conditions, get your weight off the seat and back, use primarily the rear brake and feather it. Try to stay off the front brake or use it lightly. 

Fatter tire up front will give you more cushion and you can run a lower pressure for more grip. Some friends of mine do the 40c in front, 35c in rear. Panaracer Gravel King is the most popular tire around here. Maxxis Ramblers a close second. 



Durt thanks for your feedback. Here is where I am kind of coming from I am a decent climber but never have considered myself a down hiller. It probably doesn't help that I had some medical issues last year and really haven't had a chance to feel my Roker out or get in as many miles as I should have as I just bought it in December and only had it in 3 races so far. The bike for sure is more than I am right now. I had no mt bike experience before this.

To explain how the bike is breaking lose. You know in gravel how when you have a road where you have the car tracks on both sides of the road so the stones are pretty much thrown off there and you have a pretty decent track. I am not talking about that what I am talking about is the heavy stones pile up between those tracks or if you get in an area that the entire road has heavy stone tracks like that. I have no control of the bike in stuff like that and it scares the jeebers out of me even if I let the bike run and slid back on the seat. Once Sat. I was running probably faster that I should have been and it was that heavy stone/rutted/and washboards. When I hit the brakes I had no results I never stopped or even slowed down. I don't know if I was going so fast I was flying over the top of them but blowing thru a stop sign because you can't get stop isn't a lot of fun. I really couldn't get much relaxing on the downhills after that as I was braking too much to stay slowed down. Another way to explain it was it feels like the back or front wheel is ready to come off the bike.

How do you handle it when it is really rutty and you are getting thrown all over the place. It probably doesn't help me much as on all these races you come across unknown areas instead of riding something you are familiar with. I am just trying to get my bike set up so it does well in chunky gravel or what I guess I would call heavy or rutty gravel.

I posted above what do you thing of running 40 on the front(probably trying Flintridge Pro which I have some on my Tamland) and then maybe a 35 or 38 something on the rear.

Thanks
Zman

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Durt

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Reply with quote  #9 
Well, the simple answer is to try to stay in one of the two tires tracks! Sometimes this is unavoidable and in those cases, you've just got to slow down. ANYTIME there is any doubt over control, especially descending, get out of the seat, get your weight back, and with drop bars - get off the hoods and into the drops for more control. Hover over your seat, not really standing up but not sitting either. You want to be balanced with your weight slightly back. Arms relaxed but in control, one finger on each brake lever, pedals level, and just try to coast it out until you can get back on one of the smoother tracks or back in control. Use the rear brake primarily, stay off the front unless necessary. Yes, it will be harder to brake and slow in the deep stuff so again, slow down, safe control is better than unsafe speed. 

Now on flat ground or climbing, then you're back to kind of just letting the bike go where it wants. You're steering it slightly but not wrestling against it. BUT you've got to maintain control. You don't want it flopping all over the road but weaving around some is not uncommon. I'm not very eloquent so hard to explain what I mean. Watch how pro cyclocrossers ride through sand, it's never in a straight line. When climbing or motoring on flat ground, read the surface. Look for the smoothest parts and follow them. Switch all over the road if you have to. Sometimes that strip in the middle is the smoothest. Sometimes the dirt and sand and grass along the edge is the smoothest. Just look for it and test it. You'll know right away if it's a good surface or not. Also read the tire tracks from riders in front of you. They'll show you the way to the smoothest parts usually. All that said, if it's a mass start, it will be hard to control and do all these things in a bunch going fast. Once things start to spread out, it becomes much easier to choose your line. And if it's the entire road, settle in and suffer through. 😉

Your traction and control over both wheels/tires is compromised in deep loose gravel like that. You have to err on the side of caution. And it really does take practice. You'll get better over time. Talk to fellow racers and watch them and their technique. I don't think I'd worry too much about your tires right now, work on your technique. Practice on some local gravel if you can. Don't get hung up on the two different sized tires. You're bigger guy so get two quality 40's or larger and go tubeless. Then experiment with pressures. As mentioned above, if deep loose gravel is common for you, look for a tire that has some side knobs and a smoother center. The knobs will help grip in turns and the deep stuff. The knobs on the maxxis ramblers are not big at all but they are great tires with surprising amounts of traction. Very happy with them. 


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chas

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Reply with quote  #10 

I’m thinking it is as much about technique and bike geometry as everything.  If its dry, I don’t find that tread makes much difference (aside from how quickly they break away or crash).  Either that or just slow down, lol.

I find that tread helps in mud (if they clear the mud) and grass and leaves.  More of a fall thing for me.

I think your tire pressures are fine.  I tend to run softer up front as my bike has a 40F60R weight balance. I want similar “tire drop” front rear.   Don’t go softer in the rear or you will bottom out.

Yes, in the summer I often just leave a 32mm slick on the rear for road or gravel (unless it is real rough).  I’ll put a 28mm race tire on the front for the road and a 40mm rambler on the front for gravel (giving me a more compliant ride and better ability to slide).

But unless the race is smooth hardpack (or paved) I would just stick the 40mm tire on the back too.  Around here gravel roads are like rough asphalt in the summer so the slick works fine, but unless it is hard and smooth I don’t need slicks.  IMHO, there is no point in having a tire that is smoother than the riding surface – so on old/rough aslphalt or crushed limestone (or anything worse) small tread isn’t a problem.

For the fall, I’m planning on doing a 54mm 650b mountain bike tire up front on nasty days – that will match well with a 40mm 700c rear.   Most front forks have lots of clearance if you really want to go fatter.  This would be my goto for sand (we have more coastline in Michigan than the entire west coast combined!). 

(I wrote that before I read Durt's comments above, but sounds like he is saying the same thing).

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #11 
Well, the simple answer is to try to stay in one of the two tires tracks! Sometimes this is unavoidable and in those cases, you've just got to slow down. ANYTIME there is any doubt over control, especially descending, get out of the seat, get your weight back, and with drop bars - get off the hoods and into the drops for more control. Hover over your seat, not really standing up but not sitting either. You want to be balanced with your weight slightly back. Arms relaxed but in control, one finger on each brake lever, pedals level, and just try to coast it out until you can get back on one of the smoother tracks or back in control. Use the rear brake primarily, stay off the front unless necessary. Yes, it will be harder to brake and slow in the deep stuff so again, slow down, safe control is better than unsafe speed. 

I am good on the climbing and on the flat ground. I know if I start slipping on a climb to sit back down and slid on to the back of the saddle. The 2 parts that have scared the jeebers out of me is the heavy ruts and heavy stones when you can't avoid them. Thanks for the suggestion of going slower and staying under control.😉

Your traction and control over both wheels/tires is compromised in deep loose gravel like that. You have to err on the side of caution. And it really does take practice. You'll get better over time. Talk to fellow racers and watch them and their technique. I don't think I'd worry too much about your tires right now, work on your technique. Practice on some local gravel if you can. Don't get hung up on the two different sized tires. You're bigger guy so get two quality 40's or larger and go tubeless. Then experiment with pressures. As mentioned above, if deep loose gravel is common for you, look for a tire that has some side knobs and a smoother center. The knobs will help grip in turns and the deep stuff. The knobs on the maxxis ramblers are not big at all but they are great tires with surprising amounts of traction. Very happy with them. 

My local gravel is all fire tower roads that cars drive on so no heavy stones to practice on. I think you have help me make up my mind. I am going to switch my Flintridge Pros over from my Tamland 1 over to my Roker and then after I wear them out maybe try the Maxis Ramblers or Schwalbe G ones. My normal weight is 185 but having a medical issue last year I gained 15 lbs from the stress. Hoping to loose it back this season.

On the tire pressure issues, I don't think I have ever  had a tire bottom out but not sure what that would feel like. What has been hard for me running tubeless is that you run the tires so low that if feels like you are having a flat tire or have a flat. That is hard for me to overcome coming from the roadie end. I actually came flying off the mt. once last summer as I thought I was having a flat and didn't want to get stuck up in the mt. with no cell phone coverage and no traffic. It was a false alarm of course. I might try 45/40 

Thanks again
Zman

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chas

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman


How do you handle it when it is really rutty and you are getting thrown all over the place. It probably doesn't help me much as on all these races you come across unknown areas instead of riding something you are familiar with. I am just trying to get my bike set up so it does well in chunky gravel or what I guess I would call heavy or rutty gravel.



Sounds like you are going too fast!

You could try doing some mountain biking, or something where you get used to sliding a bit.  Get comfortable on dirt just locking up the rear wheel and stopping with the rear locked (actually I find grass is an easy and safe(ish) place to try this).  I don’t think tires are going to help much.

Technique wise – the normal reaction is to tense up.   The correct reaction is to loosen up – soft touch – let the bike do what it wants with soft nudging (like horseback riding!).  Off the saddle, arms and legs bent to absorb anything and of course stay within your limits.  If it is loose enough sometimes you just have to point the bike in the direction and let it go – but don’t run any stop signs!   On some downhills (mostly mountainbiking) I know I’m not going to be able to stop because the traction isn’t there.  If I have a good line of sight, I commit.  On the road I’m concerned about traffic and rules of the road.

If this is an issue for you, the only thing that will really work tire wise is to run as fat a tire as you can, or get a bike with front shock.

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas


Sounds like you are going too fast!

You could try doing some mountain biking, or something where you get used to sliding a bit.  Get comfortable on dirt just locking up the rear wheel and stopping with the rear locked (actually I find grass is an easy and safe(ish) place to try this).  I don’t think tires are going to help much.

Technique wise – the normal reaction is to tense up.   The correct reaction is to loosen up – soft touch – let the bike do what it wants with soft nudging (like horseback riding!).  Off the saddle, arms and legs bent to absorb anything and of course stay within your limits.  If it is loose enough sometimes you just have to point the bike in the direction and let it go – but don’t run any stop signs!   On some downhills (mostly mountainbiking) I know I’m not going to be able to stop because the traction isn’t there.  If I have a good line of sight, I commit.  On the road I’m concerned about traffic and rules of the road.

If this is an issue for you, the only thing that will really work tire wise is to run as fat a tire as you can, or get a bike with front shock.



I follow what you are saying Chas. To explain it just a little bit more is I probably don't run more that 15-18 mph on the downhills and 20's if I see that smooth road tracking that I was talking about above. The kicker is on unknown roads you can be doing the 15-18 mph range and then come across a blind corner/heavy rutty area/heavy stone area and now you are going way too fast.

Do you think the Flintridge Pros would have any more traction than the stock Clement MSO xplor that are on there at present?

I probably will try locking the back brakes up some on grass or on gravel under control to get use to it 

Zman

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chas

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Reply with quote  #14 

Yeah, I have run into that situation a couple of times this year.

When it happens, my body goes real limp (stiff = crash), I try to let the bike do what it wants to do, coax it to do what I want to do, brake pretty hard with the rear and gently with the front (on gravel), and if necessary I’ll take an “off road” excursion. 

Unfortunately my girlfriend does not have this muscle memory and she biffed (wearing a tank top, no helmet or gloves).  Not sure I’ll get her back on gravel any time soon.  I had her son on the back of my tandem at the time – at least he didn’t get hurt!

With tires, I may not be the best as I like minimal knobs.  From what I have seen of those tires, they look pretty similar, and the MSO is going to be fine for dry gravel.

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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #15 
So while I have this post up. What would most riders ride if they knew the course was smooth and you could use smooth fast tires on it?

Zman

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chas

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Reply with quote  #16 
I use Conti 4-season 32mm tires in the summer.  Tough, supple, long lasting.  I don't put tubes in mine though (shame on me).  

Smooth panaracer gravel king or pasela are some good options.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
I use Conti 4-season 32mm tires in the summer.  Tough, supple, long lasting.  I don't put tubes in mine though (shame on me).  

Smooth panaracer gravel king or pasela are some good options.


Thanks Chas never heard of pasela is that a panaracer tire?

Zman

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dangle

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
 I might try 45/40 

Thanks again
Zman


Increasing to that would make your problem worse. If you're not smacking the rim on rocks or larger pieces of gravel, you're fine. It literally feels like hitting a rock with your rim when you 'bottom out' so it's pretty obvious when it happens.

I agree with those saying you should ride the widest tires you can safely fit in your bike for the conditions you're talking about. Having a little bit of squish (that feels like a flat tire on a 'standard' road bike tire) is perfect. Sounds like you're on the right track. If you like your Kenda Flintridge tires and Kenda is supporting events you do, sticking with them doesn't sound bad. They have the Flintridge in both a 40 and 45. I wouldn't go smaller than 40. 45 won't roll noticeable faster on smooth stuff. It will noticeably smooth out bumps and grip loose stuff better at appropriate pressures.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Increasing to that would make your problem worse. If you're not smacking the rim on rocks or larger pieces of gravel, you're fine. It literally feels like hitting a rock with your rim when you 'bottom out' so it's pretty obvious when it happens.

I agree with those saying you should ride the widest tires you can safely fit in your bike for the conditions you're talking about. Having a little bit of squish (that feels like a flat tire on a 'standard' road bike tire) is perfect. Sounds like you're on the right track. If you like your Kenda Flintridge tires and Kenda is supporting events you do, sticking with them doesn't sound bad. They have the Flintridge in both a 40 and 45. I wouldn't go smaller than 40. 45 won't roll noticeable faster on smooth stuff. It will noticeably smooth out bumps and grip loose stuff better at appropriate pressures.


Thanks Dangle I am running the Flintridge Pro's on my Tamland 1 which I really don't ride now that I have the Roker Comp. I am still riding the stock tires on that bike the Clement mso xplor 40's. I don't guess I will wear them out this season but maybe for next season I will swap them out to the Flintridge.


This was the 1st event I have been to that Kenda was a sponsor. They had a couple of racers there and gave me a 25% off coupon for their website. The new tire that they were talking about coming out or for sale in a couple of weeks was the

Flintridge Alluvium

sizes are
700 x 35
700 x 40
700 x 45
650 x 45mm

I saw a link on cyclocross mag from the sea otter and they had some info on it.

2 styles of tires

$55 gravel casing technology which has bead to bead protection.

$50 tubeless   race which is to be lighter more supple casing without the bead to bead protection. I think they are going to have it in the brown wall and looks like 3 different sizes of side knobs and more dense center knobs.

Reading all this info for me though is almost as easy as understanding somebody that is speaking a foreign language.

What is bead to bead protection and what makes this any different than any other gravel tires? 

The rep there suggested I run the Flintridge pro in 40 on the front and the Alluvium in 35 on the rear.  

Zman

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Zurichman

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I took a chance tonight and I might have found the sweet spot for my gravel bike. Ran 45 rear and 40 front. The bike seemed fast on the road and seemed to be more firm/stick/under control on the gravel. With that being said I think I saw RoverAl posting omnce that he carried a small in your pocket tire gauge in his pocket so he could adjust(lower)his tire pressure if I remember right when he was riding in the sand and need to lower it. Anybody have a clue on what brand that would be? I might PM him. Some pics from tonight's ride. One pic is the overlook of the valley.   DSCN0685.jpg  DSCN0688.jpg  DSCN0689.jpg  DSCN0690.jpg  DSCN0691.jpg 

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #21 
Another pic is of a military cargo airplane crash on the top of the mt on Oct 26 1956. A sad day in military aviation history as all 4 crew members died. The one pic with my eyes closed might be my body telling me it's time for a nap after the climb. The 2 bike pics were at the end of my long dirt lane and if you are visual in the last pic you can see the telephone poles going back to the woods where my house is in the middle of it. Luv rural Pa and going out for a ride and not seeing a signal light. Don't know about anybody else but nothing like the coolness of the evening on a hot summer night as the sun goes down.

I couldn't remember the terminology that I wanted to use last night on how the bike felt. The tires felt more firm and just seemed to stick to the road better. 

Zman

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jonz

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Reply with quote  #22 
I ride both mountain bikes and dirt bikes (i.e. motorcycles) besides my gravel bike.  Half the year in the desert which means sand.  Which is kind of like gravel in that the bike will drift back and forth.  I think the most important thing I've transferred from those to the gravel bike when I ride it through deep gravel is keeping my weight balanced over the bicycle. I rise slightly off the seat and keep my weight over my feet with just a light grip on the bars.  When braking in gravel, try to anticipate the forward weight transfer by shifting your weight a little to the rear but still in balance over your pedals so that you have the same light grip on the bars.  If you allow all your weight to transfer onto the bars/front wheel, your front wheel will plow and you'll have less steering control.

Also, you're trying to make your hands act like a steering stabilizer (Scotts, GPR, etc are the models for motorcycles) in that you're just damping down large and/or fast oscillations. Until you're ridden a dirt bike with and without one, it's hard to realize how much difference it makes while hauling ass down a dirt/gravel Baja road and switching from one tire track to another across the piled up gravel in the middle. The stabilizer makes it a non event.  So try to become a steering stabilizer - not damping out all oscillations just keeping them at a manageable level.

edit: I know knobs make a huge difference on a dirt bike but those knobs are huge in comparison to bicycle knobs and relative to the gravel on roads. For riding ball bearing gravel, I'm not convinced bicycle tire sized knobs will make much of a difference. I think tire volume would help more for deep gravel.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #23 


edit: I know knobs make a huge difference on a dirt bike but those knobs are huge in comparison to bicycle knobs and relative to the gravel on roads. For riding ball bearing gravel, I'm not convinced bicycle tire sized knobs will make much of a difference. I think tire volume would help more for deep gravel.

Hey jonz thanks for this info. So a ? for you. I probably have to set my bike up more for the East Coast versus all grave riding in Kansas and stuff like that. Some of  my rides here in the East Coast might have 50/50 gravel/road or 60/40 gravel/road so for that reasoning wouldn't I be taking a mph penalty if I set the bike up with wide volume tires. On some of might rides I have seen riders with a roadie bike riding 700 x 32 or something like that. Granted they aren't in the 200 lbs range except for a few. Any thoughts on that? I probably could get a 700 x 45 tire on the front and then I could run a skinny tire on the back 700 x 38 or 700 x 36. 


Thanks
Zman

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jonz

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
Hey jonz thanks for this info. So a ? for you. I probably have to set my bike up more for the East Coast versus all grave riding in Kansas and stuff like that. Some of  my rides here in the East Coast might have 50/50 gravel/road or 60/40 gravel/road so for that reasoning wouldn't I be taking a mph penalty if I set the bike up with wide volume tires. On some of might rides I have seen riders with a roadie bike riding 700 x 32 or something like that. Granted they aren't in the 200 lbs range except for a few. Any thoughts on that? I probably could get a 700 x 45 tire on the front and then I could run a skinny tire on the back 700 x 38 or 700 x 36. 


It's always going to be a balancing act between comfort on the rough stuff and rolling resistance on smooth pavement.  I haven't followed all the latest studies on rolling resistance but what I've taken from what I have read is that there isn't as big a penalty in extra resistance for running big tires as was previously thought.  That is especially true when encountering bumpy surfaces as a small skinny high pressure tire experiences resistance when it gets deflected by the bumps.  Someone else can probably chime in with better data. I'm old and fat, and comfort is more important to me.
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chas

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Reply with quote  #25 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman

Thanks Chas never heard of pasela is that a panaracer tire?

Zman

Yes - its a commuter tire - fast with good milage and good protection. Just what you need for gravel. It is a classic that has been a go to tire for years. It is a tubed predecessor of the tubless Gravel King (slick).

Quote:
What is bead to bead protection and what makes this any different than any other gravel tires?

many tires have protection under the tread, but not on the sidewall. Bead to bead means the protection includes tread and sidewall (i.e. the whole tire).

I agree - I like 45mm front 40 back. Most all bikes can fit a bigger tire in the front than in the back anyway.

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