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CrankShaft

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Reply with quote  #26 
After looking at her check point times, I must have been seeing her on leg two (I was already on leg 3 when she arrived at CP2).

I’m hoping for the best, and that she self-reported a DNF after the finish - good karma...
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jruhlen1980

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper88



Ted,
this all seems spot-on. There's not a serious problem here, it's more like a one-off hiccup, the kind of thing you can't prevent from cropping up occasionally in life...  given what I've seen of how this race management team does things, it seems likely they will note it, and adjust, next year doing more to reinforce an understanding among any media running vehicles on the course exactly what the rule is.
It's not a federal case, GCN didn't disrupt anything in a serious way.... it's just something that needs to be policed a little to keep the behavior from spreading.
GCN also needs to have some internal discussion about ethics, and do a better job of reading rules for events they want to participate in for "first person" stories, which this presenter seems truly talented at.
The video seems to show she was initially given a finish. Who knows...but Ido wonder whether  the organizers saw the footage and then had a talk with GCN and rescinded it quietly ...seeing no need to get into a high profile "cheating" accusation with GCN, which seems mainly to a force for good in cycling. 
It seems truly unlikely that GCN knew they were breaking the rule, since they blatantly left the footage in. Still, just like the earlier notorious case, there's no excuse for not reading, understanding and following the Kanza rules in the "Bible." In the months before the event, the race organizers continuously encouraged entrants to read and absorb it. And it is really simple and straightforward.
It approaches bizarre that someone would go to the massive training and logistical effort to do such an event and not understand the simple handful of rules...




Agreed, the rules worked the way they were supposed to. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say she just didn't read the rules. I agree it's baffling that no one at GCN thought to read the rules given how much they were spending to cover this thing.

What's really a shame is that otherwise, this is a fantastic video. The video quality itself and the production values are far above the normal shaky go-pro footage you get at this sort of thing, and the way the footage is edited does a remarkable job of conveying the length and loneliness of this event. It is unfortunate that this video is now marred by such a simple to understand, and follow, rule. 

It's not like running out of water was even that big of a risk this year -- I distinctly remember riding by 2 locations on the third leg where locals were providing water of their own volition -- one farmer had left a hose out for riders to use, and a family was handing out bottles of water and Coke at the top of a hill. There were probably others that I didn't notice. 
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ott13979
What sucks is that that I know one of the guys that cheated with her (GCN girl)... he told us they did it the entire way (he got DQ'ed as well)... I have another friend who finished at 11:30pm.... he lied to me telling me that didn't use any outside support (only at the proper spots) but come to find out he cheated the entire time... 

I don't think it's widespread but in my world the 2 people I know who did the 200 also cheated.

Congrats they did 206 miles on gravel roads but they didn't complete DK200

Eric




Huh... that's pretty startling. I would have thought it was almost non-existent from what I saw on the course. There just weren't hardly any vehicles out there.
It seems to have been kept pretty minor... too easy to see given the vast number of people riding.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #29 
I know first hand from the Furnace Creek 508(Now Silver States 508) I believe that they had hidden meaning in the rules so that they knew you read the entire set of rules.

One had if you had read these rules bring a 2 lb. bag of M & M candy with you to the riders meeting. Not sure how this applies to this ride though as the riders are only to get support at the assigned rest stops. 

one had bring a brown envelope with you to the meeting. We wrote on a white envelope this is a brown envelope. lol I guess where you have money involved or big bragging rights you have a chance of this happening. Unlike on the roadie end where you can have spotter cars watching what is going on this isn't feasible on gravel rides. Maybe what they might have to do is have undercover ride marshals on the course. That would have to be kind of crazy to do that though. I thought in most rules that I read that 2 different teams had to challenge a rule breaking from a rider/riders within a certain time limit after the finish. Curious as to why this rider wasn't turned in before they even gave her a finish time or guessing maybe no ride marshals at the rest stops. Not sure as I have never done the ride.

Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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chas

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
I know first hand from the Furnace Creek 508(Now Silver States 508) I believe that they had hidden meaning in the rules so that they knew you read the entire set of rules.

One had if you had read these rules bring a 2 lb. bag of M & M candy with you to the riders meeting. Not sure how this applies to this ride though as the riders are only to get support at the assigned rest stops. 



Actually, the M&M thing originated with Van Halen in 1982 (I think I saw that show!) – their contract specified that they be provided a bowl of M&Ms with all the brown ones removed.

While this has often been cited as the odd extravagant excesses of performers, it actually had a very good reason to be there (as you alluded to above).  They were playing a lot of small venues and accuracy/safety was a significant issue.   If you walked into the dressing room and there was a bowl with brown M&M’s, it was just about a guarantee that they did not read the contract and something else was wrong in the setup.


Quote:
 a copy of a contract rider from Van Halen’s 1982 world tour, under the “Munchies” section, does document that the band specified they be provided with “M&M’s (WARNING: ABSOLUTELY NO BROWN ONES)”:


Not sure why the KY Jelly is in the contract though.  [eek][eek][eek]
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jruhlen1980


Agreed, the rules worked the way they were supposed to. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say she just didn't read the rules. I agree it's baffling that no one at GCN thought to read the rules given how much they were spending to cover this thing.

What's really a shame is that otherwise, this is a fantastic video. The video quality itself and the production values are far above the normal shaky go-pro footage you get at this sort of thing, and the way the footage is edited does a remarkable job of conveying the length and loneliness of this event. It is unfortunate that this video is now marred by such a simple to understand, and follow, rule. 

It's not like running out of water was even that big of a risk this year -- I distinctly remember riding by 2 locations on the third leg where locals were providing water of their own volition -- one farmer had left a hose out for riders to use, and a family was handing out bottles of water and Coke at the top of a hill. There were probably others that I didn't notice. 


Yup... it was a great video, except for that. She is talented in a way that regular folks can get, not just us bike geeks. Production values were great...
And indeed, hydration wasn't so critical this year. I got three water bottle handups from local families -- two of them tiny bottles at the same intersection where I really only stopped because the kids giving out water were soooo excited to be helping us out that I wanted to connect with such terrific folks, I didn't need water.
Used up 2-liter camelbak only twice before pit stops, and really only got into one magnum sized cage bottle on one leg.
Which makes this mistake of GCN so odd. The guy knocking down liquid with her probably didn't read the rules either. He's in the clear, it wasn't his support crew, I guess, but he seems totally cheerful about the stop even though it would have been apparent the truck was her crew. He shouldve been saying uh, this is not a good idea for you, and here's why...



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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #32 
I know the guy with her... he has competed before and I know he knows better. 
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #33 
If this really bothers you you could just ask GCN. They're YouTube famous for bikes which doesn't exactly make them unapproachable gods.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #34 
I finally watched the video. From somebody that has never done the DK200 I found it very interesting and gives you an idea of what you are up against in the 200 miler. I didn't know they had small water crossings on this ride. The other thing I noticed about the video when she talked a couple of times I saw that her left arm was out straight which meant/looked to me that she was grabbing on to the GCN support vehicle to talk to them. That in itself would be grounds for a DNF. Hopefully this is just a learning experience for GCN but I still like the video.


Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Dug

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Reply with quote  #35 
I saw that red Jeep many, many times throughout the day.   Often a guy was standing next to it scoping the route with binoculars.   I commented to my friends that something seemed off.   Just odd to keep seeing the same vehicle so many times throughout the day.  I'm glad this particular itch got scratched for me and I now know what was going on. 
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frontrangegravel

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Reply with quote  #36 
Well....at least they didn't go on the attack blaming everyone else for the improper aid like the Great BooGate of years past. 


And I hate to have to say it, but watch the nasty personal attacks. GHC, if you have a personal problem with ott, take it offline and discuss one on one. Arguing, discussing, bantering, trading info, back and forth, and the such is encouraged. Personal attacks are not.  Don't bring the public attacks out or I'll just delete you. As we all know, forums can descend quickly and I don't want that to happen. This is your warning. 
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Volsung

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
I finally watched the video. From somebody that has never done the DK200 I found it very interesting and gives you an idea of what you are up against in the 200 miler. I didn't know they had small water crossings on this ride. The other thing I noticed about the video when she talked a couple of times I saw that her left arm was out straight which meant/looked to me that she was grabbing on to the GCN support vehicle to talk to them. That in itself would be grounds for a DNF. Hopefully this is just a learning experience for GCN but I still like the video.


Zman


I think when she was holding her arm out is was when she was holding her go pro selfie stick
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