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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #1 
Watch the video... maybe I am overreacting? But she cheated

GCN.jpg 



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GHC

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Reply with quote  #2 
Yea, you should definitely be a name calling tattle tail behind a keyboard and spend as long as it takes to garner support to make yourself feel better. 

If checking this post 20 times today looking for gratification doesn't help, there is always counseling.

I'd give you the number to the race organizers, but I suspect you already have it.

Great work.



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Bikeguy

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Reply with quote  #3 
Clearly you did not check the results. She is listed as DNF. Hope you feel better. 
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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #4 
Haha look the rules are the rules... I’ve suffered on that course alone...
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GHC

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Reply with quote  #5 
guessing you suffer alone a lot, and I sincerely hope you find help for that
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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #6 
good luck getting to me... ha ha ha
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GHC

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Reply with quote  #7 
at least you've doubled your post count and established a first impression, congrats and have a good day camping here.  bye
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #8 
Can you specify the rule you believe was broken?
The comment about her DNF'ing seems irrelevant if what OP is posting is a complaint about receiving support on the course. The stop shown in the photo was in daylight. Some of the video shows her still at it in the dark.
It's the same vehicle at her checkpoint stops, but it seems entirely possible race management allowed it on course as a media truck.
I guess taking liquid off it is your accusation?

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CrankShaft

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Reply with quote  #9 
I saw her several times during the third leg, and also saw the GCN crew many times along the route, stopped and waiting for her. I assumed they were filming her for their channel, but there were a few times she was stopped at their vehicle. The outside assistance was apparent. And, GCN was the only crew I saw on the course, outside of the check points (there may have been others, but GCN was the only one I noticed). I think what struck me at the time was that a lot of riders were bonking badly during the 3rd leg, and she had a crew all along the route.  

From the Riders Bible:

Support Crews are NOT allowed on course, except to pick up a rider who is abandoning the event. If a support crew vehicle is spotted on course, their rider will be disqualified. Providing support to a rider while on course goes against the self-sufficiency spirit of this event. It is unfair to other participants, and therefore will not be allowed.

I don't really care about her, or whether or not she was DQ'd.  But it did seem very apparent that this crossed the line from media to assistance.
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #10 
That's what it looks like, pickle juice and water jug clearly out in the video. Not smart after the controversy that led to that Boo bikes DQ under the same rule. Would be interesting to get GCN's explanation.
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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #11 
come on guys... stop stop... rules don't matter


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GHC

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ott13979
good luck getting to me... ha ha ha


Sorry to see you’re still camping on day two.

thanks for the luck wishes, but obviously no need. Lonestar recorded it best (I’m Already There)




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ott13979

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHC


Sorry to see you’re still camping on day two.

thanks for the luck wishes, but obviously no need. Lonestar recorded it best (I’m Already There)




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GHC

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ott13979
come on guys... stop stop... rules don't matter




Oh, I get it, the revitalized purpose for your recycled original post, is to enlighten gravel racers in this forum on the importance of rules, and how not following the rules isn't fair to others and/or may have consequences. Thank goodness you are here to master the obvious and rain down your infallible wisdom on mere gravel racing mortals like me.  

What may help you feel better next, is describing how your virtuous life (ya know ((or maybe you don't, sadly)) important stuff, well beyond riding the half pint).....qualifies you to mount a bully pulpit here to attack a young lady 1/2 your age for any reason, legitimate or otherwise, and preach “the Importance of Rule Following” to your assumed less informed here. Spare no detail, clearly you have it in you. 

I suspect your hypocrisy has no bounds E**c

There is an alledged proverb out there about the danger of hard riding (or was it throwing?) rocks while on a glass saddle or something like that, but I forget how it goes and likely screwed up the detail and/or the meaning.

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david_ve

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Reply with quote  #15 

sven nys and jens voight had a camera crew with them as well.

u can see it in the DK recap from "the gravel cyclist"

i think trek shot some video for the checkpoint

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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #16 
The issue is not the moral character or motivations of the original poster. The issue is not whether she had a film crew, or whether, as one of you seems to think, she's a better person than the original poster due to her age and gender. I haven't seen any video of Nys or Voigt taking liquids from their film crew on course.
The SOLE issue is, was one of the few, and central, rules of the race broken. If you don't want to address that, fine, but anything else is irrelevant.
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david_ve

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Reply with quote  #17 

that oint is very clear!

let 1 person on the course with a support crew, and next year u have 5 next year ....

nys was just film crew filming nys putting a new innertube ...

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307Rider

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Reply with quote  #18 
Wow! Little heated in here. As an event organizer myself. They broke the rules and that’s that. The organizers should have planned for their own personnel taking the camera crew around or simply Disqualify any aid caught. If the camera crews the organizers provide aren’t good enough for The mighty GCN then that’s to bad.
Sounds to me like the hype the greed the popularity of racers the companies the organizations attending the DK are getting to the organizers & the city itself. Overcharging gouging and hardly giving anything to it’s participants.

No matter how big you get remember how small you used to be! Or small you will soon return to be.

Keep it real keep it original keep it about the adventure the challenge the story the struggle & the conquering of oneself Athletic limit.

I believe in creating the suffer & the recover for each and every participant including their family friends and fans. They take the time to plan & pay for travel just to get here. Having providing discounted lodging and an all day festival or after party is what we do here in Wyoming. Maybe my opinions are rare because of where I am. Being the least populated state and the state nobody really knows outsiders I’m meaning. We here welcome all and are friendly to all. I understand the logic of hey people are going to come we might as well raise rates etc. to make the best of them. However if your a good organizer you’ll work with lodging and your city to get behind you and create something special for all and provide a gift for all not just the SUFFER.

Me personally. Nobody can beat me in a race 100 or 200 miles long! Why? Because I’m racing myself. Nobody can take my joy because I enter an exit my own darkness and exit it on long rides. Gravel Grinders are supposed to be about the adventure not the race. Yes we reward the fastest strongest men and women however all are rewarded for coming here after the races. Exploring, adventuring and discovering your inner self is why I organize my events. To promote healthier happier lifestyles and provide ways to push people to their limits then bring them back to peace with live music 🎶 cold beer 🍺 & of course MEAD!

Cheers
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GuitarTed

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper88
The issue is not the moral character or motivations of the original poster. The issue is not whether she had a film crew, or whether, as one of you seems to think, she's a better person than the original poster due to her age and gender. I haven't seen any video of Nys or Voigt taking liquids from their film crew on course.
The SOLE issue is, was one of the few, and central, rules of the race broken. If you don't want to address that, fine, but anything else is irrelevant.


Perfectly stated. The back and forth regarding the rest here is unnecessary.

Wow! Little heated in here. As an event organizer myself. They broke the rules and that’s that. The organizers should have planned for their own personnel taking the camera crew around or simply Disqualify any aid caught. If the camera crews the organizers provide aren’t good enough for The mighty GCN then that’s to bad.

The DK200 is a huge event with several things going on simultaneously. Much of what they do is based around a trust of folks which is sometimes not placed well. Perhaps this GCN deal was one of those places. As an organizer and as a person who has been around the industry for a while now I can see the reasons why the DK folks did allow GCN out there. I would imagine that they aren't very pleased with this, knowing them as I do, but it is what it is now. And in the end, it really doesn't matter with regard to this year's version of the DK.

But with GCN's following, this does paint a picture for those watching this that the DK runs things in a way that allows support from team cars and the like. To my mind, this is the issue that will possibly cause headaches for the DK Promotions folks going forward. That is a problem they have the capabilities to overcome., so hopefully this won't be anything the typical DK contestant will ever have to see going forward.
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Zurichman

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Reply with quote  #20 
Dang I go do a lettle ride in Little Prairie Ohio called Funks Bottom and all hell breaks loose. I did enjoy the ride this weekend.


Zman

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If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307Rider

Me personally. Nobody can beat me in a race 100 or 200 miles long! Why? Because I’m racing myself. Nobody can take my joy because I enter an exit my own darkness and exit it on long rides. Gravel Grinders are supposed to be about the adventure not the race. Yes we reward the fastest strongest men and women however all are rewarded for coming here after the races. Exploring, adventuring and discovering your inner self is why I organize my events. To promote healthier happier lifestyles and provide ways to push people to their limits then bring them back to peace with live music 🎶 cold beer 🍺 & of course MEAD!

Cheers



YES! yes and yes again.
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thumper88

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarTed



The DK200 is a huge event with several things going on simultaneously. Much of what they do is based around a trust of folks which is sometimes not placed well. Perhaps this GCN deal was one of those places. As an organizer and as a person who has been around the industry for a while now I can see the reasons why the DK folks did allow GCN out there. I would imagine that they aren't very pleased with this, knowing them as I do, but it is what it is now. And in the end, it really doesn't matter with regard to this year's version of the DK.

But with GCN's following, this does paint a picture for those watching this that the DK runs things in a way that allows support from team cars and the like. To my mind, this is the issue that will possibly cause headaches for the DK Promotions folks going forward. That is a problem they have the capabilities to overcome., so hopefully this won't be anything the typical DK contestant will ever have to see going forward.



Ted,
this all seems spot-on. There's not a serious problem here, it's more like a one-off hiccup, the kind of thing you can't prevent from cropping up occasionally in life...  given what I've seen of how this race management team does things, it seems likely they will note it, and adjust, next year doing more to reinforce an understanding among any media running vehicles on the course exactly what the rule is.
It's not a federal case, GCN didn't disrupt anything in a serious way.... it's just something that needs to be policed a little to keep the behavior from spreading.
GCN also needs to have some internal discussion about ethics, and do a better job of reading rules for events they want to participate in for "first person" stories, which this presenter seems truly talented at.
The video seems to show she was initially given a finish. Who knows...but Ido wonder whether  the organizers saw the footage and then had a talk with GCN and rescinded it quietly ...seeing no need to get into a high profile "cheating" accusation with GCN, which seems mainly to a force for good in cycling. 
It seems truly unlikely that GCN knew they were breaking the rule, since they blatantly left the footage in. Still, just like the earlier notorious case, there's no excuse for not reading, understanding and following the Kanza rules in the "Bible." In the months before the event, the race organizers continuously encouraged entrants to read and absorb it. And it is really simple and straightforward.
It approaches bizarre that someone would go to the massive training and logistical effort to do such an event and not understand the simple handful of rules...


0
Zurichman

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Posts: 875
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307Rider
Wow! Little heated in here. As an event organizer myself. They broke the rules and that’s that. The organizers should have planned for their own personnel taking the camera crew around or simply Disqualify any aid caught. If the camera crews the organizers provide aren’t good enough for The mighty GCN then that’s to bad.
Sounds to me like the hype the greed the popularity of racers the companies the organizations attending the DK are getting to the organizers & the city itself. Overcharging gouging and hardly giving anything to it’s participants.

No matter how big you get remember how small you used to be! Or small you will soon return to be.

Keep it real keep it original keep it about the adventure the challenge the story the struggle & the conquering of oneself Athletic limit.

I believe in creating the suffer & the recover for each and every participant including their family friends and fans. They take the time to plan & pay for travel just to get here. Having providing discounted lodging and an all day festival or after party is what we do here in Wyoming. Maybe my opinions are rare because of where I am. Being the least populated state and the state nobody really knows outsiders I’m meaning. We here welcome all and are friendly to all. I understand the logic of hey people are going to come we might as well raise rates etc. to make the best of them. However if your a good organizer you’ll work with lodging and your city to get behind you and create something special for all and provide a gift for all not just the SUFFER.

Me personally. Nobody can beat me in a race 100 or 200 miles long! Why? Because I’m racing myself. Nobody can take my joy because I enter an exit my own darkness and exit it on long rides. Gravel Grinders are supposed to be about the adventure not the race. Yes we reward the fastest strongest men and women however all are rewarded for coming here after the races. Exploring, adventuring and discovering your inner self is why I organize my events. To promote healthier happier lifestyles and provide ways to push people to their limits then bring them back to peace with live music 🎶 cold beer 🍺 & of course MEAD!

Cheers


I can't wait to take you up on this offer and attend one of your gravel races in Wyoming next summer. All I ask is you have at least one cold Coke or Pepsi and some food at the finish line(2 of the 6 didn't have that so far). I must admit I had to look up what MEAD was. I need to go ride as the heat index is to reach 104 here today in Pa. our hottest day of the year so far.

Zman from Pa.

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
ott13979

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #24 
What sucks is that that I know one of the guys that cheated with her (GCN girl)... he told us they did it the entire way (he got DQ'ed as well)... I have another friend who finished at 11:30pm.... he lied to me telling me that didn't use any outside support (only at the proper spots) but come to find out he cheated the entire time... 

I don't think it's widespread but in my world the 2 people I know who did the 200 also cheated.

Congrats they did 206 miles on gravel roads but they didn't complete DK200

Eric


Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper88



Ted,
this all seems spot-on. There's not a serious problem here, it's more like a one-off hiccup, the kind of thing you can't prevent from cropping up occasionally in life...  given what I've seen of how this race management team does things, it seems likely they will note it, and adjust, next year doing more to reinforce an understanding among any media running vehicles on the course exactly what the rule is.
It's not a federal case, GCN didn't disrupt anything in a serious way.... it's just something that needs to be policed a little to keep the behavior from spreading.
GCN also needs to have some internal discussion about ethics, and do a better job of reading rules for events they want to participate in for "first person" stories, which this presenter seems truly talented at.
The video seems to show she was initially given a finish. Who knows...but Ido wonder whether  the organizers saw the footage and then had a talk with GCN and rescinded it quietly ...seeing no need to get into a high profile "cheating" accusation with GCN, which seems mainly to a force for good in cycling. 
It seems truly unlikely that GCN knew they were breaking the rule, since they blatantly left the footage in. Still, just like the earlier notorious case, there's no excuse for not reading, understanding and following the Kanza rules in the "Bible." In the months before the event, the race organizers continuously encouraged entrants to read and absorb it. And it is really simple and straightforward.
It approaches bizarre that someone would go to the massive training and logistical effort to do such an event and not understand the simple handful of rules...


0
reubenc

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper88
The video seems to show she was initially given a finish. Who knows...but Ido wonder whether  the organizers saw the footage and then had a talk with GCN and rescinded it quietly ...seeing no need to get into a high profile "cheating" accusation with GCN, which seems mainly to a force for good in cycling. 
It seems truly unlikely that GCN knew they were breaking the rule, since they blatantly left the footage in. Still, just like the earlier notorious case, there's no excuse for not reading, understanding and following the Kanza rules in the "Bible." In the months before the event, the race organizers continuously encouraged entrants to read and absorb it. And it is really simple and straightforward.
It approaches bizarre that someone would go to the massive training and logistical effort to do such an event and not understand the simple handful of rules...


She was definitely given a finish and a time at the end of the event. I ran in to her at the start and then was curious about her results and noticed that she had finished successfully. I assume the post-event DQ was based on the video. I wonder if GCN will mention it in a future video.
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