The Riding Gravel Forum
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 786
Reply with quote  #1 
This topic was introduced in another related thread; but I feel it deserves to be highlighted as new topic. I heard about this product from a bike shop mechanic last winter. The mechanic I spoke to, had never used it, however. Here is the infomercial from the Finish Line website: http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/tubeless-tire-sealant/sealant
F
inish Line claims that their product will last as long as the tire, as well as other benefits such as being free of ammonia and latex. Hmmmm - sounds too good to be true. Based on some reviews from certified purchasers on Amazon, I have my doubts. While I have my doubts about this manufacturer's claims, I want to keep an open mind; and would welcome any input from our forum experts - especially anyone who has actually tried this stuff. For myself, I will stick with tried and true latex products from Stans and Orange Seal, that are relatively inexpensive; and which have performed well for me over several years of use.
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 451
Reply with quote  #2 
Yeah, Slime and Flat Attack have done this for years.  

Before "tubless" sealant I used Slime on my commuter bike.  It sealed a nail on my 54mm tire quite good (took me a couple of days to figure out why I was loosing air, lol).  It didn't seem to do any good on my 25mm tires though as the sealant would just leak out if I had a hole (maybe it worked better if the hole was plugged with a nail)?

I like latex better, but it is higher maintenance.  I can see how for 90% of the people out there (the more casual riders) it would be great, but I'm thinking latex is better for people who are willing to maintain their bike.
0
Volsung

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #3 
If you're using WTB tires and rims or some UST stuff I bet this works ok. If your tires don't hold air without sealant, as many supple tires don't, these aren't for you.

The liquid in mine leaked out through my sidewalls and couldn't seal a space along the bead. I added orange seal and it's fine now.

I'm running Soma (Panaracer) tires and Nextie premium rims.
0
simplemind

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 57
Reply with quote  #4 
Sometime I fall for the hype and become an early adopter.  That was true with tubeless beginning with getto tubeless back in the day.  Same with the Finish Line sealant...couldn't wait to see the reviews, so I bought into it, literally and figuratively. My first application was in my mountain bike 2.6 Nobby  Nics.  Looked good at first, then mid-way through the first ride one tire lost air.  Hmmmm, re-inflated with CO2, lost it again.  Re-inflated and it held until I got back to the trailhead.  OK, in fairness, I run extremely low pressures, <20 psi.  I was ready to ditch the system, but I decided to inflate to 30 psi and ride on some smooth terrain, and it held fine.  Went back to <20psi, and have a number of rides without issue.  BTW, no punctures that I know of.
FF to my gravel setup, running WTB Resolutes.  Setup using the Finish Line sealant with no issues, and two gravel races.  FFW to my wife's gravel setup, running Clement Strada USH and after install, left overnight and found the rear tire was deflated (front ok).  Re-inflated and checked under water and found a few tiny air bubbles around the bead.  Re-inflated, rode around a bit, and no bubbles or deflation now.
So here is what I think is going on:
1) I did not check the bead on the tire for gas nibs (tiny rubber tits) prior to installation, which is important to remove on any tire running tubeless.
2) The Finish Line sealant does not form a "latex liner" like Stans does.  I believe it seals by clogging the passageways, whether puncture or bead.
3) Soon after you do your installation, ride around to get the bead seated, flexed and sealed.  After that I think you're good to go.
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 238
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
If your tires don't hold air without sealant, as many supple tires don't, these aren't for you.


What is that statement based on? The Finish Line Sealant is pretty viscous and appeared to coat everything really well once the recommended amount was used.
0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 238
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemind
My first application was in my mountain bike 2.6 Nobby  Nics.  Looked good at first, then mid-way through the first ride one tire lost air.  Hmmmm, re-inflated with CO2, lost it again.  Re-inflated and it held until I got back to the trailhead.  OK, in fairness, I run extremely low pressures, <20 psi.  I was ready to ditch the system, but I decided to inflate to 30 psi and ride on some smooth terrain, and it held fine.  Went back to <20psi, and have a number of rides without issue. 


Was it the 27.5" or 29" version? of the 2.6? How much sealant did you put in? My limited experience with Finish Line Sealant is that they really want you to use the entire amount they suggest. The instructions say 4-5 ounces for a 29 x 2.3, so I would think 5-6 might be what they want for a 29 x 2.6. I think we ended up around 4 ounces for a 700 x 40mm tire. I'm not exactly a Finish Line proponent, just curious.
0
OTHRider

Member
Registered:
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #7 
This is a popular topic on a mountain bike forum that I belong to.  Basically, there is a sealant that will eventually work in almost every tire/rim combo and it's up to you to figure it out.

Old formula Stans was famous for Stanimals forming as the product dried. New formula Stans seems to minimize that.  New Stans works great for me but after 8 months I have about 20 "weeps" on each sidewall.  It looks ugly but I don't have to add air for two or three weeks.

The Finish Line has been getting pretty good reviews.  The guys are waiting for some long term usage to see if weeping begins. One rider pulled his tire off after three months and the inside of his tire has the same "blue jelly" look and consistency as when he first put it in.  No evidence of drying or globbing.

The weight weenies have already calculated that an 8oz bottle weighs 1/2lb.  So, adding 4oz in each tire (MTB sized volume) will add 1/2lb to you rotating mass.  No complaints about the weight if it works, just comments. 

I'll be adding my summer dose of Stans this weekend to my Rambler 40s and hopefully be flat free for another season.
0
simplemind

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 57
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


Was it the 27.5" or 29" version? of the 2.6? How much sealant did you put in? My limited experience with Finish Line Sealant is that they really want you to use the entire amount they suggest. The instructions say 4-5 ounces for a 29 x 2.3, so I would think 5-6 might be what they want for a 29 x 2.6. I think we ended up around 4 ounces for a 700 x 40mm tire. I'm not exactly a Finish Line proponent, just curious.



29er, and I only used about  3 oz so that's not a fault of the sealant!  And you have a good point, "use the recommended dosage"!

0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 238
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemind
29er, and I only used about  3 oz so that's not a fault of the sealant!  And you have a good point, "use the recommended dosage"!


Well, still no guarantee it will work as advertised. Just something to keep in mind. As a fellow early adopter, I have been farting around with tubeless setups for at least a dozen years and never even thought to look at the amount the bottle recommended until not being able to figure out why 2oz wouldn't hold much air in a 700 x 40mm tire with brand new tape.
0
LewisQC

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 112
Reply with quote  #10 
I used it to mount my Gravelking 38c tubeless.  I use 2.5 onces at first (2-3 recommended on the bottle). Maybe I wasn't patient enough but after 24h hours of shaking and letting the sealant do it's jobs by disposing wheels on each side for awhile, I was still loosing some air. So I add what was left in my 8 onces bottle. So now I have 4 onces in every tire (same volume I of Stan's I would use in my fatbike tire!) but they are holding air (lost 4 psi in 8 days). I rode 60km at 35-40 psi with my 200lbs no problem. I will see how it works in the long term but I think I'll try orange seal next...
0
Volsung

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle


What is that statement based on? The Finish Line Sealant is pretty viscous and appeared to coat everything really well once the recommended amount was used.


Based on experience. It doesn't seal the same way as latex. The Dupont fibers might work fine on punctures but they sure don't seal up bead imperfections.

Also, ever see an older Compass or Soma tire that has had orange seal leak through the sidewall? It kinda gets discolored and orange. Since finish line seals with fibers the glycol or whatever the fluid is just bubbles out.
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 786
Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and experience. My thought is that latex based sealants like Stans and Orange Seal are lower viscosity mixtures of solvents, latex, and fibers. This allows the sealant to distribute within the tire and quickly plug any small holes and spaces. It also coats the sidewall making them less permeable. Most of the weight in the sealant mixture is in the volatile solvent which evaporates over time, faster, or slower, depending on factors like relative humidity, temperature, and tire casing. Continually adding sealant on a regular basis - in my case about every 3-4 months, is very effective in keeping the tire's flat protection. Adding fresh sealant to an already seated tire is fairly easy, requires little time, and doesn't add any more weight than when you originally sealed the tire. I don't even remove the wheels. I put the bike up on my work stand, deflate the tire, remove the valve stem, inject fresh sealant, replace the valve stem ( a new one if the old is gunked up) and re-inflate. It takes me less time than writing this post. For that, I get the proven function of a low viscosity sealant, without some of the problems and expense of high viscosity gel material. As far as solid material building up inside tire, it really adds little weight, and you'll probably wear out the tire long before it becomes a problem.
0
OTHRider

Member
Registered:
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #13 
Copied from another site  -  I also had the wet spots when using both Stans and Orange Seal with certain tires. The Racing Ralph 2.35 that I ran on the front for an entire year was one big wet spot when it wore out. It didn't lose much air, but it definitely seeped. One thing that is holding true with the Finish Line is better air retention. I have only added air to the rear tire one time since a couple days before VQ and that was only a pound or two. With Orange Seal and Stans, I added a pound or two every ride. The front hasn't had FL as long, but it seems to be holding just as well.

0
dangle

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 238
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
Based on experience. It doesn't seal the same way as latex. The Dupont fibers might work fine on punctures but they sure don't seal up bead imperfections. Also, ever see an older Compass or Soma tire that has had orange seal leak through the sidewall? It kinda gets discolored and orange. Since finish line seals with fibers the glycol or whatever the fluid is just bubbles out.


I'm tracking now. It wasn't clear you had been using Finish Line. I didn't think it was really a 'liquid' either, more like a runny tapioca pudding. So far I'm not a fan. Unless it can do magic at high PSI, I don't think it's a great option.
0
Volsung

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #15 

Yeah, my bad.  I've been knocked out like 9 times so sometimes things I try to say don't come out very clearly. 

 

Also, it's not tapioca pudding.  I'm pretty sure it's salad dressing. 

0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 937
Reply with quote  #16 
New formula Stans seems to minimize that.  New Stans works great for me but after 8 months I have about 20 "weeps" on each sidewall.  It looks ugly but I don't have to add air for two or three weeks.

The Finish Line has been getting pretty good reviews.  The guys are waiting for some long term usage to see if weeping begins. One rider pulled his tire off after three months and the inside of his tire has the same "blue jelly" look and consistency as when he first put it in.  No evidence of drying or globbing.

geesh

OTHRider what the world is weeping?

Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
Zurichman

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 937
Reply with quote  #17 
Continually adding sealant on a regular basis - in my case about every 3-4 months, is very effective in keeping the tire's flat protection. Adding fresh sealant to an already seated tire is fairly easy, requires little time, and doesn't add any more weight than when you originally sealed the tire. I don't even remove the wheels. I put the bike up on my work stand, deflate the tire, remove the valve stem, inject fresh sealant, replace the valve stem ( a new one if the old is gunked up) and re-inflate. It takes me less time than writing this post. 

Bobknh I have figured out how to remove the valve stem but haven't figured out how to inject Orange seal while the tire is still on without making a mess or losing lots of sealant.



Zman

__________________
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 786
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurichman
Continually adding sealant on a regular basis - in my case about every 3-4 months, is very effective in keeping the tire's flat protection. Adding fresh sealant to an already seated tire is fairly easy, requires little time, and doesn't add any more weight than when you originally sealed the tire. I don't even remove the wheels. I put the bike up on my work stand, deflate the tire, remove the valve stem, inject fresh sealant, replace the valve stem ( a new one if the old is gunked up) and re-inflate. It takes me less time than writing this post. 

Bobknh I have figured out how to remove the valve stem but haven't figured out how to inject Orange seal while the tire is still on without making a mess or losing lots of sealant.



Zman

I guess a lot depends on the tire, rim, and device you are using to inject sealant. I've used both an old Stan's syringe which connects outside the valve body, as well as the KOM Cycling  syringe which uses a small tube which inserts inside the valve body. I've had good results with both syringe's. I found that the Stan's works best when I gently squeeze the tire to suck the sealant in, while the KOM works best with pressing the syringe plunger. Both syringes work best when the wheel is suspended either in a truing stand; or on your bike suspended on a work stand. If the tire isn't suspended, then there wont be enough space at the bottom of the wheel for the sealant to pool. It will ooze out and make a mess. If the tire remains seated after you deflate it, then the squeeze tire technique works great with the Stan's injector. If your tire doesn't stay seated when deflated, then the KOM syringe using the plunger works well. In both methods I use, it is best to work slowly and patiently, giving the sealant time to flow through the valve body. Hope this helps.
0
OTHRider

Member
Registered:
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #19 
OTHRider what the world is weeping?

Just a local term to describe how the sealant will eventually weep, leak, pass thru the tire and form little wet spots.  I doesn't happen with every tire or every brand of sealant but it is extremely common.  It usually occurs on the side walls, but I have a few in the tread zone too.

I have just over 1500 miles on my Ramblers and since I ride mostly dirt I still have plenty of tread left.  I'm running mid 30s front and rear.  My tires looked perfect for the first 6 - 8 months and then the weeps or wet spots started showing up.   It looks bad but I'm only adding air after two or three weeks. 

The victim -
9.jpg 

0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 786
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTHRider
OTHRider what the world is weeping?

Just a local term to describe how the sealant will eventually weep, leak, pass thru the tire and form little wet spots.  I doesn't happen with every tire or every brand of sealant but it is extremely common.  It usually occurs on the side walls, but I have a few in the tread zone too.

I have just over 1500 miles on my Ramblers and since I ride mostly dirt I still have plenty of tread left.  I'm running mid 30s front and rear.  My tires looked perfect for the first 6 - 8 months and then the weeps or wet spots started showing up.   It looks bad but I'm only adding air after two or three weeks. 

The victim -
9.jpg 

Interesting. I've never seen that on my tires using latex sealant. Maybe the lower viscosity solvent used in the latex sealant just evaporates without leaving wet spots. I have had sealant come through more porous casing like that used by Compass. In that case, it is actually sealing micro holes in the casing.My guess the wet spots are whatever volatile solvent is used in the Finish Line product penetrating the tire casing. 
0
Grouch

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #21 
Ive never had these problems with Orange Seal. I tend not to mess with something that works.
0
OTHRider

Member
Registered:
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh

My guess the wet spots are whatever volatile solvent is used in the Finish Line product penetrating the tire casing. 


This is from using Stans. I didn't get the any weeps on my Clement MSO or my MTB Rekons.


0
bobknh

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 786
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTHRider


This is from using Stans. I didn't get the any weeps on my Clement MSO or my MTB Rekons.



Thanks for the update. I guess it's the solvent in the Stan's that's at issue. I've been using Orange Seal Endurance - without this problem.
0
Bike John

Member
Registered:
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknh
Thanks for the update. I guess it's the solvent in the Stan's that's at issue. I've been using Orange Seal Endurance - without this problem.

The sealant? Or the tires?
0
simplemind

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 57
Reply with quote  #25 
The Finish Line apparently uses ethylene glycol as a solvent/carrier, which other sealants use to some degree.  The weeping occurs as a result of the rubber barrier/liner breaking down thru flexing of the sidewall over time and mileage. True UST and most "Tubeless Ready" tires use a more impermeable layer of rubber to prevent air and sealant escaping, but even TR tires seem to start "bleeding" well before the tread is worn out.  

Anyway,  as I see it, the only reason to use Finish Line is the longevity benefit. Also, if you have a spare set of tires that you don't use often, latex sealants can form a solid mass where it pools at the bottom, unless you rotate them often. The Finish Line (in theory) shouldn't do that.

Orange Seal Endurance does last longer than many, however you never really know when it's time to add more unless you open up the bead or use a dip stick through the valve.  As long as you're diligent about checking content, then any of the latex products will suffice.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.