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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Guys

What do you think about those wheelset from dtswiss?

CR1600 22 inner width, tubeless ready with tape, 350 hub, 1754g, 411 euro
https://www.dtswiss.com/fr/produits/roues-route/cross-road/cr-1600-spline/cr-1600-spline-23/

ER 1400 20 inner width, tubeless ready with tape, 240, 1474g, 671 euro
https://www.dtswiss.com/fr/produits/roues-route/endurance/er-1400-spline/er-1400-spline-21/

My actual wheelset is around 2050g so I could shave at least 300g of rotational weight and even another 3-400g with lighter tires

I have been pretty impressed with my Dtswiss BR2250 that I bough for my fatbike...
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #2 
I like DT Swiss wheels.  When I started gravel a few years ago there weren't many wheel sets available that were disc ready w/11-sp road freehubs.  I ended up buying on eBay a few sets of the XR 1501 mtn bike wheels and changing out the freehub.  It's turned out to be a good solution.  They're around 1500 grams and 20mm inner so just about right for most gravel tires.  I picked up a couple of sets for around $700 and one for around $300.  But had to buy the freehub and some end caps.  I figured that if they were designed for mtn bike use they would hold up well for gravel and they have.  And I've had no problem running them at high pressure either.

I just built a new mtn bike and bought the new version at 22.5mm.  I bought a new set for about $700 from bike-discount.de.  In fact, I'm looking at a set of 27.5 from them right now.

I think either of those could be great wheels though I'd recommend lighter is better depending on where and how you ride.
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #3 
The 1600 uses the new R500 rims.  There is also a 20mm internal R470.  The ER 1400 uses a more expensive Asym rim.

The rims themselves are actually quite affordable.  I'm currently building some 470's.  $510 seems pretty spot on for them built with 350 hubs.

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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #4 
DT Swiss wheels come with all sort of end cap which is a plus. I was surprised when I received my fatbike wheels that all end-caps possible were included even an XD driver for sram cassette that most company will charge 100$ for...

What about inner width? is 20mm enough? My bike won't fit a lot more than 40c. Would I see a big difference with 22mm vs 20? ER1400 (20mm) is almost the same price  (and weight) than light-bicycle RG922 (22mm) with DTswiss350. I wonder how these two would compare head to head...

Gran Fondo are testing a prototype evolution  of the CR 1600 which will be lighter. 1754g is not bad and would be a great improvement from my actual wheelset but I would like to go down in the 1500-1600 range if possible. That would put my XL bike near 18lbs. Not bad
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
The 1600 uses the new R500 rims.  There is also a 20mm internal R470.  The ER 1400 uses a more expensive Asym rim.

The rims themselves are actually quite affordable.  I'm currently building some 470's.  $510 seems pretty spot on for them built with 350 hubs.


Ok I see... So R470 20mm (450g), R500 22mm (495g), and the RR421 Asym (430g). With some combinaison of 350 or 240 hub... 

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-er-1600-spline-db-23mm-wheelset-662528

So this one is  DT350 with asym 20mm rim? Quite confusing... 

I'm guessing since I do more road than gravel with my bike, I could get away with a lighter 20mm width rim...
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #6 
Of course what we'd really like is for you to hire a US wheel builder.  


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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisQC
DT Swiss wheels come with all sort of end cap which is a plus. I was surprised when I received my fatbike wheels that all end-caps possible were included even an XD driver for sram cassette that most company will charge 100$ for...

What about inner width? is 20mm enough? My bike won't fit a lot more than 40c. Would I see a big difference with 22mm vs 20? ER1400 (20mm) is almost the same price  (and weight) than light-bicycle RG922 (22mm) with DTswiss350. I wonder how these two would compare head to head...

Gran Fondo are testing a prototype evolution  of the CR 1600 which will be lighter. 1754g is not bad and would be a great improvement from my actual wheelset but I would like to go down in the 1500-1600 range if possible. That would put my XL bike near 18lbs. Not bad


Yes, the DT Swiss wheels are very versatile with the various end caps.  And the freehubs are extremely easy to change.  They even make an end cap conversion to boost spacing.

Generally, up to a point, I would say a wider rim is better.  It provides a little more air volume, straighter sidewalls and a bigger footprint.  As for me, I probably couldn't tell the difference between 20mm and 22mm though I'm sure there are those that can. 

Wider rims are a fairly recent trend and the old way wasn't terrible.  I've got 2.35" mtn bike tires on 19mm rims and don't have any problems - Schwalbe Nobby Nics on Easton EA70 XCTs.  I also have the same rim mounted w/WTB Nano 40c tires on my Niner - also w/o any problems.  My new mtn bike wheels are probably a bit on the narrow side at 22.5 w/2.1" tires but I'm ok w/that.  If I decide on 27.5+ wheels/tires for my mtn bike I'll probably go at least 25mm and probably 30mm wide on the rims. 

My Ridley came stock w/DT Swiss R24s and 38mm tires.  The R24s are 18mm wide and about 1,750 grams which I consider mid weight and about the maximum I would personally go.  For me, 1,500 is light weight though I know there are wheels much lighter - but usually more expensive than I'm willing to pay.  Anyway, take a look at the R24s.  DT Swiss also makes an R23 which is around 1,600 grams.  Either would make a good wheel and especially for smaller road tires.  But could be used for bigger rubber too.
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
Of course what we'd really like is for you to hire a US wheel builder.  


I know but I'm in canada... Price here are so steep for a lot of reason for bike part that it's really a lot cheaper to buy a complete wheel set from a german site.

Just for an example: DT Swiss 350 hubs 500$can. Or CR1600 1140$ can or 691 can online from german site. 

So if you have connection in canada, or have other suggestion to save some of my preciously earn money...
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owly

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Reply with quote  #9 
r2-bike has a few 1350gm builds around 640euro.


Slowbuild has quite a few nicely priced wheels:- 
https://www.slowbuild.eu/%C3%BCbersicht/disk-gravel-cx-disk/
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #10 
These are the non-boost version of the wheels I bought for my new mtn bike.  You would need a free hub conversion kit which is readily available on eBay @ c. $100.  If you use a 11-sp mtn bike cassette then no conversion kit necessary.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-xr-1501-spline-one-29-wheelset-536133
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by owly
r2-bike has a few 1350gm builds around 640euro.


Slowbuild has quite a few nicely priced wheels:- 
https://www.slowbuild.eu/%C3%BCbersicht/disk-gravel-cx-disk/

Some nice build at decent price on slowbuild site... Dt240, RR421 Asym at 489 euro
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #12 
Anyone has experience dealing with https://www.slowbuild.eu/├╝bersicht/disk-gravel-cx-disk/ ?? I'm not sure they're shipping to North-America. I wrote them a question but no reply for now...
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks for those who gave me some suggestions.

Dt swiss XR1501 looks great with 22.5mm inner width but the red color won't match my bike!! It's a shame that they're not available in neutral color like road wheels.

R2 build are mostly with Newmen hub. I found no review whatsoever on this new company so won't go that route (unless somebody has experience with those light hub).

Slowbuild have really great price but fail to respond to my requests. Still not sure if they even ship to Canada. I've tried to find affordable bike parts in canada for a custom build but price are ridiculous. Ex DT240 rear hub for 650$, single wheel for almost the same price than complete wheelset from german site, etc...

So I'm left with those: (prices in Canadian dollar) probably 6% duty except LB and WI/hed custom build

Model

Weight

Inner width

Depth

Hub

Spokes
Fr/Rear 

Price

CR 1600

1728

22

23

dt350

28/28

394E (617$)

ER 1600

1638

20

23

dt350

24/24

394E (617$)

ER 1400

1474

20

21

dt240

24/24

570E (893$)

Hunt 4Season

1639

20

24

novatec

28/28

538$

Hed Belgium + on WI cld11 cx-ray

1550 (estimate)

20.5

24.5

White ind.

24/28

1200$ no duty

Hunt gravel carbon

1479

21

30

novatec

28/28

1580$

LB 922 I9 road hub

1450

22.6

28

I9 road hub

24/28

1624$ no duty

I'm leaning toward ER1400. Mid range price, carbon-like weight and I know what I'll get since I own a DTSwiss wheelset. I would prefer larger inner width though... I would also like the WI/Hed+ custom build but at 1200$, I'm not far from LB922/I9 hub build  shipped from their canadian factory (so no duty and easier return if they need service or warranty), has a 22.6mm inner width and would be my number one choice if money was no object.

Still waiting a bit before pulling the trigger so if some of you have thought about my choices feel free to share them.

 I'll shave between 300 and 600g with a new wheelset (already -400g going from Refuse to Gravelking 38c)...

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owly

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Reply with quote  #14 
A couple of the German forums mention Slowbuild being a bit hit and miss with replying to queries also. Good builds though. 

If the price was good, what is the lowest build weight you'd be comfortable with, at your weight? 
Just asking, as I'm getting a custom wheelset built up at the moment with some China carbon rims from Carbonfan (they're a bit cheaper than LB rims).
My wheel builder really likes the quality of the rims. 

Also, what tyre pressures will you be running (min./max.) ?


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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by owly
A couple of the German forums mention Slowbuild being a bit hit and miss with replying to queries also. Good builds though. 

If the price was good, what is the lowest build weight you'd be comfortable with, at your weight? 
Just asking, as I'm getting a custom wheelset built up at the moment with some China carbon rims from Carbonfan (they're a bit cheaper than LB rims).
My wheel builder really likes the quality of the rims. 

Also, what tyre pressures will you be running (min./max.) ?




I guess I could call slow build but I'm not sure what I would get with my french accent speaking to a german builder!!  Their price are good but  it's only 125$ less for a dt240/RR421 wheelset so equivalent to ER1400.

With no roadie background, a 1500g is pretty light for me. I don't have any wheel building experience but from my reading, most gravel/burlier wheelset are not much lower than 1450g (LB 922, Hunt gravel, NOBL cx28, rodeo lab) with recommended max rider weight of between 115kg and 125kg. So a 24/28 spoke 1450g wheelset seems about right and probably it would still be possible to go down sub 1400g.

As for tire pressure, I don't remember when I rode narrower tire than 35c so probably from 30 to 70 depending on tire size... I would like to be able to run a 28c at higher pressure if I do a road fundo.

Since I don't have the money for a carbon wheelset at the moment, I'm wondering if I should go for cheapest option (hunt 4season, ER1600 or even CR1600), which would still be an improvement over my actual setup. In a year or two I could upgrade to carbon and keep aluminium one as my second wheelset. First world problem...

Edit: I just had a look at carbonfan website. The price is good, 1200 can for a dt350 build, 1410g? 
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owly

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Reply with quote  #16 
I'd probably go for the ER 1400 also then, due to price and weight/specs. 
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-er-1400-spline-db-21mm-wheelset-662504

Ideally I'd like a 28/28 spoke though.

You'd be fine on a 20mm Inner rim. I have that on one wheelset; have run 2.0" no issues. 
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #17 
I don't know about Canadian exchange rates, duty, and shipping, but FWIW these are for sale. 

1475g
28/28h
22mm internal width
Nextie Asymmetric Hookless (70psi)
15x100, 12x142, or QR/QR
$900

NOVATEC Hub rear UD-Carbon Disc 3 in 1 | D412CB Straightpull for 12x142 mm Thru Axle ~  NOVATEC Hub front UD-Carbon Disc 3 in 1 | D411CB Straightpull for 15x100 mm Thru Axle





   20180320_150545.jpg


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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleritter
I don't know about Canadian exchange rates, duty, and shipping, but FWIW these are for sale. 

1475g
28/28h
22mm internal width
Nextie Asymmetric Hookless (70psi)
15x100, 12x142, or QR/QR
$900

NOVATEC Hub rear UD-Carbon Disc 3 in 1 | D412CB Straightpull for 12x142 mm Thru Axle ~  NOVATEC Hub front UD-Carbon Disc 3 in 1 | D411CB Straightpull for 15x100 mm Thru Axle





   20180320_150545.jpg


Nice build! My bike is 12mm TA front. Is it possible to get a 12mm end-cap from novatec with this hub? I think it should be around 1250 can after duty and exchange...
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oleritter

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisQC


Nice build! My bike is 12mm TA front. Is it possible to get a 12mm end-cap from novatec with this hub? I think it should be around 1250 can after duty and exchange...


This appears to be them. Looks just like the qr ones I have. http://www.eshop.novatecwheels.eu/category/spare-parts/axles-and-side-caps/side-caps-12mm-for-d411sb/

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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #20 
Finally, I've decided to go with Dtswiss ER1400. Received them today. Like my fat bike's BR2250 wheelset, I'm very impressed with general quality. Dt 240 in matte black looks really cool. 1486g with dtswiss tubeless tape.  All kind of adapters and tubeless valves that fits with asym rim are provided.

My gravelking slick 38c were installed by hand. I was able to inflate with my floor pomp but not to pop the tire on the bead. Really easy with my cheap compressor. They held air without sealant for 2h before going flat but remain seated. I wanted to try  a new sealant (finish line) that "will last for the life of the tire" and I read some mixte review after I bought it. So far tires are holding air with 80ml front and 90ml rear. I might use what's left of my 8 onces bottle for good mesure... I would not use this sealant on my mtb or fatbike but for gravel road use it should be ok...

I'll post a proper report when I have some time on them but with 1000g+of rotational weight saved between tires and wheels, I can't wait to see how my bike will feel...

Here's a few pics IMG_2728.jpg  IMG_2729.jpg  IMG_2730.jpg  IMG_2731.jpg  IMG_2733.jpg  IMG_2736.jpg  IMG_2737.jpg  IMG_2739.jpg

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GSPChilliwack

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Reply with quote  #21 
LewisQC, did you get hit with duty on top of the taxes? I know that complete wheels are subject to duty (13%, I think?) whereas bike parts are not. I imagine it's hit-and-miss as to whether one gets charged or not.
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chas

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Reply with quote  #22 
That should be a nice change!

My bike came with DT Swiss CR1600 (22 inner width), and I like them - really love how my tires balloon out on them - 2-3mm wider than with 19mm inner rims.   A 28c tire measures 31mm, a 38c tire measures 41mm.  Cool.

The rims in post 1#7 are now in my garage.  Spend last night putting on brakes, cassette, tires.  Same basic dimensions as the dtswiss, but a bit lighter.  ;-) 
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LewisQC

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSPChilliwack
LewisQC, did you get hit with duty on top of the taxes? I know that complete wheels are subject to duty (13%, I think?) whereas bike parts are not. I imagine it's hit-and-miss as to whether one gets charged or not.


No. Only federal and provincial taxes (15%). It's the second time I order wheels from Germany (from bike-discount.de and bike-components.de) and I didn't get any duty. I read somewhere that it was 6%? May be I just got lucky but prices were ridiculous compared to what I could find in Canada (like entire wheelset for the price rear wheels or hubs alone...). 

I wanted to go with CR1600 at one point to get a larger inner width and save some cash but 20mm is still ok since my bike won't take much larger than 40c. And ER1400 are 300g lighter... In the futur, I may go with a CR1600 with beefier thread tires for light single track, gravel event etc... It will depend how much I'll use my bike. Normally I'm at 80% mtb 20% road. Direct from home, there's no gravel or quiet road.  So when I drive to ride, I tend to go in one of many excellent trail center all within 30 minutes... But the bike is growing on me so I see myself just riding more often.

I did a 60km ride today and I'm really glad of my purchase. I was running 38c Graveling slick 37/44 psi tubeless at 206lbs geared... It was smooth and I PR all climbing and descending section on my ride even if I was careful due to a sore knee (too much Zwift). I could go lower psi without problem I think despite my weight. 

Edit: GK 38c are exactly 38mm on my 20mm rim... I'll probably try a 43c but it should be tight a bit...

Edit 2: They are now at 39.5mm at 50psi
IMG_2765-1.jpeg 



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