The Riding Gravel Forum
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 3      Prev   1   2   3   Next
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #26 
You know , my first choice was the Carbonda 505 , thanks to this forum šŸ¤—. At the time I ve found that carbonda was slow to reply... I did not know that it would take almost 2 months to have my Tideace [smile] because they sent me another frame by mistake...so if i were you i would stick with Carbonda they are more serious I think.
That said, I do not regret my choice because so far itā€™s best Gravel chassis I ve ever had. Itā€™s very fast on the road as well!
0
chas

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 230
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croz

 And it works alright, handling is ok, thought after putting a TRP fork on it, it got noticeably better (more offset/so less trail and a more stable feel especially under braking). I've also got a 2010 Tarmac SL2 which is a joy to ride. I'm toying with the idea of one bike to do duty for both... and I'm reluctant to give up the sharp handling of the Tarmac. That bike is such a pleasure to ride even at almost 8 years old.


Less trail (greater fork offset) would give less stability, especially while braking, no?

0
ljsmith

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 261
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas


Less trail (greater fork offset) would give less stability, especially while braking, no?



You are correct.  However I have found most people think more offset means more stable, so many bike/fork reviews on the internet repeat this misinformation.  It also shows how the placebo effect works.  People install a higher offset fork, they think it makes their bike more stable (when its the opposite) and then rave about how stable their bike is thanks to the higher offset fork.
0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #29 
i guess it's all about head angle right ?
0
ljsmith

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 261
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorimages
i guess it's all about head angle right ?


When trying to determine how a given bike will ride, you have to consider the geometry as a whole rather than isolating any one or two particular values.  For instance some things that affect stability are:  wheelbase, head angle, bottom bracket drop, fork offset and even tire/wheelsize (the bigger a wheel is the higher the trail value and the slower the steering).  But at the same time the difference between most frames are very minor and really overemphasized on forums and review sites alike.  For instance I see people make a big deal about a bottom bracket drop of 65mm vs 70mm.  In reality, most people would notice no difference at all going from one to the next.  Of course if I told you ahead of time, the placebo effect takes hold and suddenly you "feel' it.  I would love to see some bike reviews where the reviewers are not told the geometry of a bike prior to riding it, then you would get much more honest reviews.  What happens is reviewers see a number on a geometry chart, and then of course they feel the difference when they ride it.  I suspect if they hadn't seen the geometry before hand they would have no idea from their test ride.  Personally, I went from a 45mm rake fork to a 50mm rake fork and could tell absolutely no difference in the handling.  The one thing I did notice is that it got rid of my toe overlap, so that was a big plus for me.  
0
Croz

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 55
Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsmith


When trying to determine how a given bike will ride, you have to consider the geometry as a whole rather than isolating any one or two particular values.  For instance some things that affect stability are:  wheelbase, head angle, bottom bracket drop, fork offset and even tire/wheelsize (the bigger a wheel is the higher the trail value and the slower the steering).  But at the same time the difference between most frames are very minor and really overemphasized on forums and review sites alike.  For instance I see people make a big deal about a bottom bracket drop of 65mm vs 70mm.  In reality, most people would notice no difference at all going from one to the next.  Of course if I told you ahead of time, the placebo effect takes hold and suddenly you "feel' it.  I would love to see some bike reviews where the reviewers are not told the geometry of a bike prior to riding it, then you would get much more honest reviews.  What happens is reviewers see a number on a geometry chart, and then of course they feel the difference when they ride it.  I suspect if they hadn't seen the geometry before hand they would have no idea from their test ride.  Personally, I went from a 45mm rake fork to a 50mm rake fork and could tell absolutely no difference in the handling.  The one thing I did notice is that it got rid of my toe overlap, so that was a big plus for me.  


This^ absolutely!

I should have been more clear when I said that the handling got noticeably better. It got more responsive and less sluggish. I was actually a bit bummed initially with the handling of the bike when I first got it - coming from racing bikes. As for braking, the fork is much beefier and it felt more solid under heavy braking than the original fork and the same was true on rough terrain/washboards - though it is a thru axle and the other was QR... which could explain some of that.

I actually didn't notice that the TRP fork had greater offset until I was talking with TRP ( I was actually giving them feedback as I'd worked with them before). I mentioned that I took it on a road ride and it seemed to be a bit better in the tight turns with the new fork... The fork's designer asked me if I had the offset on the bike's original fork and when I told him what it was we saw that it shortened up the trail (actually now it has the same trail # as the Open UP which probably doesn't mean much - to ljsmith's points...  ;-)) I am used to a bike riding one way (probably based on decades of riding racing bikes) and I seem to like what some call "less stable" or what I call "more responsive" handling - that's nothing more than my taste. I will likely adapt to whatever bike I have under me, but some clearly feel more fun in certain terrain.

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous comments regarding trail/offset and the importance of looking at the geometry as a whole - or really better yet, just go ride the bike! Looking at one aspect of geometry is pointless. Similar to the example of BB drop, I often hear/read folks say a bike has a "slack" head angle so it must not handle that well... but they never mention the fork offset. The same trail # can be obtained with a fork that has 45mm of offset or 46, or 50 depending on the head angle...(we could look at Gary Fisher's G2 geometry in the MTB 29er world to see how he used increased offset to change the handling of his bikes... which then became the norm for most suspension forks) If you  want to play with more #s you can use this trail calculator (http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tech/trail.html) and see that a bike with 53mm of offset can have the same trail # as a bike with 43 mm of offset... again, as ljsmith points out, wheel size will change those #s as well. Many bike designers have had some VERY heated discussions about these #'s and there are many paths to a fine handling bike. Frankly, it really comes down to finding a bike that feels good for you.

I think the difficulty that encourages these conversations (and I'm guilty of this as well) is that we can't ride these bikes so we are trying to get SOME idea of the handling based on what information is available - and that is from other riders, who we know little about - and the geometry #s. Unfortunately, we tend to get stuck on one # or another...

I also find that we can adapt to whatever we have to ride... though if you don't like it they are making new ones every day. ;-)

Lastly, razorimages: I really appreciate your feedback about the Carbonda! It is slowly moving to the top of the list... It, incidentally has the shortest trail # of all of them ;-)  Guilty as charged!

Croz


0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croz



Lastly, razorimages: I really appreciate your feedback about the Carbonda! It is slowly moving to the top of the list... It, incidentally has the shortest trail # of all of them ;-)  Guilty as charged!

Croz




you're welcome !  As i said, i was initially up for a (white) Carbonda... more reviews and experiences from other riders. It is defenately worth the money.

I feel like a monkey testing a new frame with this Tideace... hope it won't break [smile]  
0
Croz

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 55
Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorimages


you're welcome !  As i said, i was initially up for a (white) Carbonda... more reviews and experiences from other riders. It is defenately worth the money.

I feel like a monkey testing a new frame with this Tideace... hope it won't break [smile]  


Actually, we are all in the same boat with these frames... I share the same concern with the Carbonda.

While others have been using that frame for a year or so, I don't know how hard it has been pushed in terms of rough roads and at high speeds. I'm not saying it hasn't been pushed hard, I just don't know how others' experience with the bike compares to what I'll be doing with it. I have taken my Asylum down some really rough roads, and after doing that often enough for a couple of years, I feel confident that the frame is up to it. When I look at Carbonda frame, the skinny seatstays and particularly where they join the seat tube - I am hesitant. But I guess that's part of the price we pay for a $600 carbon frameset.

Interestingly, one of the things I like about the Tideace is that it looks to be a stouter frame than the Carbonda... Also, given the weight of most of these frames, I'd bet that they are likely overbuilt. Carbonda does have a 2 year warranty. Did Tideace say anything about a warranty?

Croz


0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #34 
from users experience, the Carbonda seems alright... I can't push my Tideace because of snow right now, but i will ASAP, and i'll let you know...
It looks beefy you're right [smile] like the 3T Exploro, since it's very close, i like that... Once again, it's the best feeling gravel i got in hands.

About warranty, Haideli / Tideace claims 2 years (on their page : https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/2018-NEW-arrival-Aero-Road-or-MTB-Bike-Frame-S-M-L-size-Cyclocross-Frame-Disc/1944411_32829431129.html?spm=a2g0w.12010108.1000016.1.47bb25c8EEu3fT&isOrigTitle=true ).

I believe if it breaks you'll have to send pictures, and they will or won't replace the frame... 
we'll see !

0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #35 
Little Update after some testing...
No major issues, but 2 little :
-I've swapped the crankset from Shimano 105 to a Sram Force, and the little adapters that they send with the frame (24mm>22mm) are okay, but for those who will mount Sram cranks, i suggest you change the BB for a SRAM (press fit), you will avoid the use of the adapter, it add 2mm of space on the non-driveside crank arm...

-Seatpost tightening tool : first, you have to use carbon paste, to avid slipery, and you have to thighten the bolt to 7Nm. But the bolt they provide is too short, on mine it destoyed the taper, and it was turning loose ! I've used a longer and stronger bolt from a Thonson seatpost, gently drill the taper , and it was okay. I did not over tighten it... 6Nm, and did not had any seatpost issues.

cheers ! [smile]

  16122017-422.jpg 

0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #36 
@razorimages how did you get your frameset shipped to you?  Was it EMS, XDB or some other option.  Mine was shipped XDB and it still hasn't arrived!  If it was XDB, I have a question for you.

Thanks!
0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike
@razorimages how did you get your frameset shipped to you?  Was it EMS, XDB or some other option.  Mine was shipped XDB and it still hasn't arrived!  If it was XDB, I have a question for you.

Thanks!

It was EMS. I has a shipment number until it reached Singapour, and then a Chronopost one(french post). Both frames from them took 3 weeks to arrive... Can you track your frame thought ?
0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorimages

It was EMS. I has a shipment number until it reached Singapour, and then a Chronopost one(french post). Both frames from them took 3 weeks to arrive... Can you track your frame thought ?


Yes, thereĀ“s a tracking number and IĀ“ve seen the frame travel all over Europe and now it is apparently in the Czech Republic waiting to clear customs.  ItĀ“s been over 2 months now since it left China.

For anyone else out there reading this, I would NOT recommend shipping by XDB.  
0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike


Yes, thereĀ“s a tracking number and IĀ“ve seen the frame travel all over Europe and now it is apparently in the Czech Republic waiting to clear customs.  ItĀ“s been over 2 months now since it left China.

For anyone else out there reading this, I would NOT recommend shipping by XDB.  


That's really annoying !!!
2 months : it is WAY too long... i hope they did not do the same mistake for you as they did for me (wrong frame !) 

At least , i can assure you that it will be a really great bike to ride. I've changed the wheels for 25mm with 38mm of height, and it's perfect for nearly every terrain... It's worth the wait that's for sure.

0
Rhadooo

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike


Yes, thereĀ“s a tracking number and IĀ“ve seen the frame travel all over Europe and now it is apparently in the Czech Republic waiting to clear customs.  ItĀ“s been over 2 months now since it left China.

For anyone else out there reading this, I would NOT recommend shipping by XDB.  


I have the exact same problem, frame left from Workswell in november, shipped via XDB, still in Czech republic in customs. 
0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhadooo


I have the exact same problem, frame left from Workswell in november, shipped via XDB, still in Czech republic in customs. 


I sent a message to Tideace through PayPal about the situation and on Monday I'll be asking PayPal to refund my money.  I heard that in December the EU cracked down on antidumping of Chinese sporting goods, specifically bike stuff, so I have a feeling these frames will never get through Customs the way they are.  I'd be happy to have my money back or have Tideace send me another frame through EMS or some other form at no extra cost.  We'll see what happens...
0
Rhadooo

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike


I sent a message to Tideace through PayPal about the situation and on Monday I'll be asking PayPal to refund my money.  I heard that in December the EU cracked down on antidumping of Chinese sporting goods, specifically bike stuff, so I have a feeling these frames will never get through Customs the way they are.  I'd be happy to have my money back or have Tideace send me another frame through EMS or some other form at no extra cost.  We'll see what happens...


It's weird because the tracking number says that it was in dutch customs for almost the entire month of december, after that it left for the Czech republic and then silence for two weeks.
Capture123.jpg 

I'll send the workswell guys an email, they said in december there were some customs problems and I should be patient, but this is getting a bit weird.

0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhadooo


It's weird because the tracking number says that it was in dutch customs for almost the entire month of december, after that it left for the Czech republic and then silence for two weeks.
  

I'll send the workswell guys an email, they said in december there were some customs problems and I should be patient, but this is getting a bit weird.


That looks exactly like my tracking number and I've had enough.  If XDB can't get them through Customs then send them back to China, which they can do, and let Tideace (and workswell) sort it out later.  In the meantime, give me money back.
0
ptobin15

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #44 
I am really interested in the workswell WCB-R-125 bike and love the geometry except for the laid back seatpost. Has anyone looked for a non setback seatpost? Does a 3t charlie seatpost fit this frame? If so that would be great, otherwise might I be able to fit a 27.2 or 31.6 seatpost into the frame with a cut off piece of the current seatpsot post. It seems to me that with this low seat tube angle that the position of the rider would be so far back not to need any setback. Can anyone comment on the fit?
Thanks Patrick
0
Rhadooo

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike


That looks exactly like my tracking number and I've had enough.  If XDB can't get them through Customs then send them back to China, which they can do, and let Tideace (and workswell) sort it out later.  In the meantime, give me money back.


Did you manage to get an answer from Tideace? there seems to be a national holiday in China now, two weeks vacation. The guys at Workswell told me that xdb are working during this period
0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhadooo


Did you manage to get an answer from Tideace? there seems to be a national holiday in China now, two weeks vacation. The guys at Workswell told me that xdb are working during this period


Tideace is not helping at all.   I asked for a solution and they just keep saying wait.  The XDB tracking number shows no movement since January 18th.  I asked PayPal to refund my money because it will soon be 3 months since I paid and I still don't have the frame.  Tideace lied to PayPal and said the frame had been delivered.  I had to reopen the dispute and explain to PayPal again that nothing has been delivered and that they should actually look for themselves at the tracking number, not just rely on what Tideace says.  

I contacted XDB directly too.  They haven't been very helpful either.  They just keep saying they're working on it.  I've never seen something take so long to pass customs.  I don't think the frame is ever going to make it through.  It's not just my frame thought.  I've read in other forums it's frames, wheels, etc... for people all across Europe.  I just hope PayPal actually looks at things this time and refunds my payment through their buyer protection.  If they don't, I don't think I'll ever use PayPal again.

I read on a forum that there is guy with a set of carbon mtb wheels stuck in the Czech Republic too with XDB and he did his payment, and now dispute directly through Aliexpress.  He had his money refunded to him.

What I've taken away from this mess so far is 1. I will never have something shipped by XDB again.  2.  I don't think I'd ever buy from Tideace again either. 

If I had saved my money up over the last 3 months I could have bought a real 3T Exploro at this point instead of trying to save money buying a Chinese knock off that now I don't have or the money I spent on it.
0
Rhadooo

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike


Tideace is not helping at all.   I asked for a solution and they just keep saying wait.  The XDB tracking number shows no movement since January 18th.  I asked PayPal to refund my money because it will soon be 3 months since I paid and I still don't have the frame.  Tideace lied to PayPal and said the frame had been delivered.  I had to reopen the dispute and explain to PayPal again that nothing has been delivered and that they should actually look for themselves at the tracking number, not just rely on what Tideace says.  

I contacted XDB directly too.  They haven't been very helpful either.  They just keep saying they're working on it.  I've never seen something take so long to pass customs.  I don't think the frame is ever going to make it through.  It's not just my frame thought.  I've read in other forums it's frames, wheels, etc... for people all across Europe.  I just hope PayPal actually looks at things this time and refunds my payment through their buyer protection.  If they don't, I don't think I'll ever use PayPal again.

I read on a forum that there is guy with a set of carbon mtb wheels stuck in the Czech Republic too with XDB and he did his payment, and now dispute directly through Aliexpress.  He had his money refunded to him.

What I've taken away from this mess so far is 1. I will never have something shipped by XDB again.  2.  I don't think I'd ever buy from Tideace again either. 

If I had saved my money up over the last 3 months I could have bought a real 3T Exploro at this point instead of trying to save money buying a Chinese knock off that now I don't have or the money I spent on it.


Aliexpress refunds immediately if you open a dispute, unfortunately I did not do the purchase via Aliexpress, so I'll wait two more weeks and see if I can get a refund via PayPal. The advantage is that it's winter here but none the less, 4 months for a frame to be shipped from China to Europe....I probably had more chances to walk to China and back in that time.
Your package also stuck in the Czech republic?
Also, how did you manage to contact XDB? they are not answering the email.
0
ndbike

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhadooo


Aliexpress refunds immediately if you open a dispute, unfortunately I did not do the purchase via Aliexpress, so I'll wait two more weeks and see if I can get a refund via PayPal. The advantage is that it's winter here but none the less, 4 months for a frame to be shipped from China to Europe....I probably had more chances to walk to China and back in that time.
Your package also stuck in the Czech republic?
Also, how did you manage to contact XDB? they are not answering the email.


I sent an email to xdb at these two email addresses with the tracking number Tideace had given me.

xmxdbgs@163.com
402349097@qq.com

Yes, my frame was stuck in the Netherlands for nearly all of December and then it went to the Czech Republic at the very end of December and has been there ever since.
0
Rhadooo

Starter
Registered:
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndbike
I sent an email to xdb at these two email addresses with the tracking number Tideace had given me. xmxdbgs@163.com 402349097@qq.com Yes, my frame was stuck in the Netherlands for nearly all of December and then it went to the Czech Republic at the very end of December and has been there ever since.


That first one I also sent an email (last month in english and one today in chinese)

So it's the same route, Netherlands and then Czech republic, they also gave a UPS tracking number, for a shipment from the Netherlands, but that's still at "A UPS shipping label has been created. Once the shipment arrives at our facility, the tracking status--including the scheduled delivery date--will be updated." I should have ordered via EMS, probably by now it would have arrived.
0
razorimages

Member
Registered:
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #50 
What a f*** up situation... 
Responsability is from Tideace, they're know not to take care of shipment really well . Remember they sent me the wrong frame... and send my frame to an Italian guy, who had to start a dispute to get his money back.
I think they are NOT prepared for situations like that.
Yes, you pay way less than a 3T, and yes, this is a very good frame (at least for me so far, more than 400km no issues) but it's not my "main" bike. If i wanted a 3T as my main bike, i would have bought a 3T instead of risking my money on Chinese guys that don't know how to deal with shipments...
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.