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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #1 
So Salsa says the carbon bird will be available in August. They say it will be worth the wait. Will it be August? Should I put money down on a frame and wait??
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #2 
I want to ride now!  Just sold my cx bike and don't have an adventure bike.  But I have the Warbird Carbon on order and think it will be worth the wait.  I don't see anything else that comes close.  The Diverge is the closest I've seen but doesn't have the ability to mount the wide tires I want to use.

A new Pivot Vault was introduced today but haven't seen the geometry yet.  And the frameset is close to the cost of a complete Warbird.
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #3 
I guess I'll put my money down in a few days. I'm getting the frame and building a bike. I live on the San Francisco area but we are moving to Kansas in a year so there's the gravel deal. Gonna do ultegra 11 speed
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #4 
I'm South from you in Escondido (N of SD).  I looked hard at building up a frame as I'd much prefer a Shimano group especially w/their hydraulic brakes.  I decided to go with the SRAM build as I think it's going to be ok but am looking to perhaps upgrade to Di2 down the road.  If I do I think it will be cheaper than building up a frameset as I think the SRAM hydraulic components will be worth more on the used market.  Then again I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the SRAM.

I'm also looking for lower gears for some of the climbs around here.  Am hoping a WiFLi 11-36 will fit but may need a new RD.

I'll say it sure is hard to find a nice set of wheels for these bikes though - 11-sp rd/disc ready/142 thru axle.


These guys have a good price on the Di2/hydraulic if you decide to go this route:

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-ultegra-di2-6870-st-r785-hydraulic-electric-kit-internal-internal-401953?currency=5&delivery_country=191
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #5 
I'm thinking White Industries CLD hubs and HED Belgium rims. I can't get past the high price for electronic shifting but I might get over that before the frame arrives.
Any suggestions on wheels??
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #6 
Wheels are a good topic - still researching.  I've set up a summary spreadsheet if you'd like me to send it to you.

I like the idea of building a set too - I've looked mostly at DT 240S hubs but there are others out there like White and Chris King.  As far as rims the Pacenti SL25 looks good as well as some from WTB and Stans

The Carbon Warbird comes w/DT Swiss R24s but they are a little heavy at around 1775.  The also have R23s at 1655 but pricier.  My mountain bike came with a pair of Easton EA70 XCTs and they have been bullet proof after almost 2 yrs of very hard riding.  Great wheels and UST tubeless.  But they are a little heavy too at 1755.  As far as light and reasonably inexpensive wheels, the ones I've looked at are American Classic and Stans.  American Classic has the Mtb Race 29 and the Argent Road Tubeless Disc.  Stans has the Cross - both Pro and Team.  These are all w/alloy rims and, of course, there are many carbon options out there.  Some may require a cassette hub replacement to convert from mtn 10 (or 11) to road 11.

So I just picked up a set of EA70s on eBay for a pretty good price that I plan to use as a second set for the Warbird - the ones with the 40c+ tires.  Then I plan to use the stock wheels w/the stock tires for road and light mixed use until I wear them out.  After that will probably put on some 28s also primarily for road and some light mixed use.  Also found a Spline One XR 1501 front wheel at a great price so I got that too - 710g.  All of those wheels will work on my mtn bike too.

I agree with you re the price of Di2  so not sure if it's going to happen or not.  At the same time, I'm getting a very good price on the Warbird and I think the SRAM levers, derailleurs and brakes could bring about $500 on the used market.  If so I would have a full carbon, thru axle, Di2, and hydraulic brakes for <$4k.  That would be pretty close to current state of the art I would think.  Only upgrades would be some Dura-Ace and carbon wheels.

Hope that helps.  Not much else to do while my patience is being tested [smile]
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yeah.  Please send me the wheel spreadsheet.  That would be great.  Also, I'd like to keep talking about the build as we wait for the warbird.
You can send the spreadsheet to my email: artgibney@comcast.net
I have other questions about bottom bracket and crank and handle bars.
Art
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cyclecuse

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsome1
I'm thinking White Industries CLD hubs and HED Belgium rims. I can't get past the high price for electronic shifting but I might get over that before the frame arrives. Any suggestions on wheels??


Can't say enough good things about the WTB TCS system. UST-compliant, easy setup, super-reliable, lots of widths to choose from. Have built up with the Chris Cross i19x622mm and KOM i23x584mm. Depending on intended tires and pressure ranges, I think you'd be looking at the Frequency CX or one of the KOMs.
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #9 
I agree - WTB would be very high on my list especially if I was going to build a custom set.  I'm planning to use the Nano 40c TCS tire too so that would be even better.
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #10 
Is there a down side to HED Belgium + rims??
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cyclecuse

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsome1
Is there a down side to HED Belgium + rims??


A little more cost, but probably doesn't amount to much in the context of the whole bike. Haven't built with them but I hear good things :-)
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Ytterbium

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Reply with quote  #12 
I put my money down on one a month or so ago, I got the white one so I had to get full bike, I'd like Di2 as well, so I can have one SRAM and one Shimano.

I like the new Stan's Rims in Carbon [smile]
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #13 
I've got a black one on order - full build.  But the white sure looks nice too.  Hurry up Salsa!
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Ytterbium

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Reply with quote  #14 
Salsa said today still Mid Aug ETA.
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #15 
That's what I heard too when I called earlier in the week.  But what exactly is mid-August?  The 15th?  The 10th?  The 22th?  Also, that is the estimated delivery date to the factory.  Then they have to build up the complete bikes and ship them to the dealers.  So that will probably add at least a couple of weeks depending where you are in the delivery (order) queue.  I assume framesets will be delivered much quicker.  I'm hoping for an early September delivery to me.  It's been a long wait already especially since I sold my cross bike in April thinking the Warbird would be available in May.  But I'm sure it will be worth the wait as I've not seen anything that compares to it as yet at least for my needs.  I'm sure Salsa is disappointed that they pretty much missed the majority of the riding season as well a lot of sales opportunities to those who bought elsewhere.

As for my needs, it's SoCal as exemplified by these posts:
http://ridinggravel.com/gravel-bikes/salsa-cycles-warbird-in-search-of-gravel-in-socal-2/
http://ridinggravel.com/gravel-news/salsa-cycles-warbird-in-search-of-gravel-in-socal-part-2/
http://ridinggravel.com/gravel-news/salsa-cycles-warbird-in-search-of-gravel-in-socal-part-3/
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #16 
I called Salsa yesterday.  The Warbird Carbon framesets are in - that is, at the factory in MN.  They are in process of building all of the complete bikes on order and then will begin shipping to dealers.  My guess is delivery in a couple of weeks, probably early September.  The framesets are being inspected and should be shipped very soon.  It sounds like most of the first shipment of bikes have been spoken for and not sure when the next shipment will arrive.
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #17 
Just an update for those of you waiting...and waiting for your carbon warbird.  A couple days ago Salsa said the carbon bikes would begin shipping "mid" September with a week shipping time to the west coast.  Somehow, after all the false starts and delays, I'm dubious, but patient as a saint.
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FlashBazbo

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Reply with quote  #18 
A couple weeks ago, I was told that the Warbirds have made it to Salsa, but . . . only for certain dealers.  My nearest dealer said the system showed -0- in stock and no expected date of availability.  In my conversation with Salsa, they explained that my nearest dealer wouldn't be getting the Warbird Carbon because, although they are a HUGE QBP account, they don't stock enough Salsa bikes.  They encouraged me to make the 3-hour trip to my nearest QUALIFIED Salsa dealer.  Otherwise, I'm out of luck. 

Great customer relations.  I'm going to buy from a company that actually wants my business.  That means Salsa is out of luck. 
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kansroad

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Reply with quote  #19 
New here and like the looks of this forum. I got my white Warbird carbon (58) last week and it is everything they say it is. Did a couple of 12-15 miles rides on gravel and on Sat. did a 50 miler on gravel and slab. I left CO couple a years ago and was riding my GT LTS double shock MTB. Nice bike but heavy for this type riding. The Warbird has the 700x35c Sammy Slicks and at 40-45 psi the ride is nice. At 50 psi, the lowest recommended, it stiffens up a bit but the carbon definitely mutes the roughness of the road.

Handled well in loose gravel and definitely a better climber and more efficient overall. The bike for a 50 mile ride was 10% faster than my MTB in a 40 mile ride at about the same pulse range. Will be able to make more comparisons later. Some say that going with a 40c tubeless may be the best combo but will ride the 35s for now. After some knee surgery 2 years ago now building up my mileage. I will get a more formal fitting this week as the dealer didn't have the skewer for the through hubs on his trainer yet. Will need to get that conversion for my own Blackburn trainer as well. 

Hope to hear more as this bike hits the dealers and the roads.
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #20 
Shame on Salsa for playing a shell game with the Carbon Warbird. They are being deceptive.
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FlashBazbo

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Reply with quote  #21 
They seem to have serious supply chain issues.  Not unusual for a company that's inexperienced sourcing a given product (especially carbon fiber components) from Asia.  Unfortunately, there are other issues that usually go with that.  If you don't really know your stuff (and, generally, have someone resident full-time in the factory), the specs of the product that ships can be rather variable.  I hope that's not the case for Salsa on this product.  Time will tell.
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #22 
1)  The new Warbird was announced, with a very favorable response, at FrostBike it late February - SEVEN months ago.

2)  Every time I call Salsa to find out when to expect availability I get a different response.  First it was May, then June, then August, then September and now it's almost October.

3)  Their excuses are also all over the place.  At first the excuse was the LA dock strike.  The excuse on my last call was some gobbledygook I couldn't even understand - something about internal processing priorities.

4)  In the meantime there have been many new models introduced by other manufacturers - from Pivot to Ridley and many others.  And I expect many more at the currently running InterBike show in LV.  There are now many more options than in February.

5)  I would think their potential customers, Art and myself for example, are very frustrated.

6)  I would think that their dealers are going to be very mad as they lose sales to other manufacturers.  And they have missed the whole Spring and Summer riding season as well as likely the Autumn season.

7)  There are many high quality carbon fabricators in Taiwan.  I would hope that if they picked a good one that there would be minimal quality control issues.  That said, I'm guessing that is the main issue.

8)  At a Salsa demo day a couple of weeks ago, they had Carbon Cutthroats available to ride but no Warbirds.  I thought that odd especially since framesets were delivered to the factory in mid-August.

9)  If the frames were delivered in mid-August, why were the frameset orders NOT fulfilled almost immediately.

10)  My wish is that they would at least be honest with everyone so that we can know what to expect in order to make an informed decision whether or not to wait some more or look elsewhere.


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rocthrower

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Reply with quote  #23 
For what it's worth, I saw a carbon Warbird on Tuesday night.  I asked the owner how he was able to get one, and he said their team is sponsored by Salsa.  Either way, he loves the bike and it was very impressive looking in person.  His was black with the rasta stripes.
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FlashBazbo

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Reply with quote  #24 
We allegedly saw a couple Warbird Carbons at Dirty Kanza at the end of May.  I say "allegedly" because, under the paint, on a bike you've never seen before, you can't tell by looking whether it's carbon or aluminum.  I was immediately impressed that they decisively cured their previous tire clearance issues.  The spec changes are definitely for the better.  But I will admit to being a little concerned about how spindly the seat stays look.  And I tried and tried and tried to buy one.  Salsa isn't providing them to my nearest Salsa dealer because they don't stock enough bikes.  Second nearest dealer is a 3-hour trip away.  Salsa said I could either make the trip or buy somebody else's bike.  Okay.

I discovered that I could have a custom frameset made in titanium in a lot less time than it's taking to get one of these off the rack.  So I am.
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Artsome1

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Reply with quote  #25 
Black carbon warbird frame is sitting in my lbs.  Salsa shipped it overnight at their expense with apologies for the delay.  Long time coming...
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