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7rider

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Reply with quote  #1 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgRVzvbnaTX/?taken-by=canyon

https://twitter.com/canyon_bikes/status/973942453786042369


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chas

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Reply with quote  #2 
Ugh - I was going to get an inflite, but the stack on the "small" seemed too low.  Now I have to see what this thing is about.

That double handlebar has to be explained.  

Thanks for turning my plans upside down!  LOL...
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spandy24

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Reply with quote  #3 
yea what is this bi-plane bar thingy??
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chas

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Reply with quote  #4 
Release date is tomorrow.  

Gravel + Trail = Grail.  
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TaTaToothy

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Reply with quote  #5 
Interesting.  Does anyone have any inside dope on what we can expect from this bike?
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Sepeda

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Reply with quote  #6 
[Canyon_grail-cf-sl-7] 
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spandy24

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Reply with quote  #7 
This will need some splainin'!
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TaTaToothy

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Reply with quote  #8 
That is one . . . interesting-looking bike.  Will I still be able to ride after I've scrubbed my eyes with bleach and SOS pads?

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Sepeda

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Reply with quote  #9 
Canyon has just launched a new bike called Canyon Grail. We have looked into the new bike that fits the gravel people.

Gravel, country roads. new roads or adventures. Several people begin to get their eyes on gravel roads or other terrain than the "just" straightway road. Whether it's about driving in other areas or just getting away from traffic, more people have started combining gravel and asphalt to get their daily fix.

There are many that are open to interpretation when it comes to building the "perfect" grind bike. From custom roadway frameworks to mechanical suspension components developed from mountain bikes, focus on this area has often been a little blurred. Now more and more manufacturers are starting to make a bike between a mountain bike, cross country and road bike.
  
The search for a bike that is adhered to the smooth - and stable on the uneven, has inspired Canyon to find the point between speed and comfort. The brand new Grail is their most "adventurous" road development ever.
  
Comfort was the area where Canyon engineers set the barren high to give Grail its skills in all terrain. To help neutralize the increase of shocks and vibrations that hit the moment. As you turn the asphalt, they came up with "Hover System".

Focusing on the key touch points including a uniquely integrated cockpit, documented VCLS 2.0 seatpin technology and the latest tires and rim systems, Grail is built to float over uneven surfaces - without the rider being pierced.
  
The most eye-catching element of the grail is the Hover bar. Its unique double-deck configuration is born to better meet the rider's requirements for a steering wheel that is resilient on the top, providing comfort when cruising around uneven surfaces and stiffening in the bend of spurts or downs.

The fluid Flex range utilizes the elastic properties of the carbon to gently divert and absorb shocks and vibrations that are transmitted through the rider. The Hover control adds only 120 grams to a conventional cockpit setup and is easier than alternative suspension systems and is free of maintenance.

Several features at Grail take rider control to a higher level. Its increased axle distance creates a super steady ride, while the mountain bike inspired cockpit with short and effective crankshaft lengths and wider steering delivers the necessary agility when it becomes technical.

All Grail models come equipped with 40 mm. Schwalbe G-ONE Bite tire matched with a tubeless ready rim with inside minimum width of 22 mm, allowing riders to ride with lower tire pressure for greater traction.
 
The frame is made of carbon, which keeps the weight down. In a size medium, the Grail CF SLX frame has a weight of just 830 grams, and it's still strong enough to handle the punishments that come when driving off-road. Shimano gear group with a new low 1: 1 gear ratio offers a wide range that will be used to tackle varied terrain without having to work with heavy gear from gear to gear.

2018 Grail series comes in six models: Five Grail CF SL models are now available for ordering including a women-specific model with Grail CF SLX at the top of the row.


http://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/produktnyt_canyon_har_fundet_den_hellige_grail/ by Google Translate [smile]

Interestingly, the story is "Published 15 March at 11:00"
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spandy24

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Reply with quote  #10 
quoted 830g frame!??! that is crazy
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Sepeda

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Reply with quote  #11 
More pics: http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/4428/canyon-grail-photos#0


 [image] 


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SamSam

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Reply with quote  #12 
I don't like the fact that stack and reach is not as easily adjustable as on normal bikes. Can't just swap out stems to get the bars closer, further, higher or lower. That is a deal breaker for me. Hope they will release aluminum models with normal cockpit configuration. But I doubt it. And when they do, it might take another while

And damn it's ugly
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jruhlen1980

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Reply with quote  #13 
Not really any uglier than a Lauf fork, and we all seem to have accepted that.
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TaTaToothy

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Reply with quote  #14 
Yeah, this feels like a fairly elaborate engineering solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  I generally admire Canyon's designs, but to me this thing seems kludgy and awkward to no good end.  I also don't like the incompatibility with traditional stem/bar combos.  If Canyon either ceases to exist or discontinues the bike, it may become hard or impossible to replace the cockpit of this bike.  It feels like planned obsolescence.  
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7rider

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Reply with quote  #15 
I concur with SamSam and TaTaToothy. The flexibility of swapping out different stem and bar configurations is essential to finding the perfect fit. Rest of the bike looks good, but nothing that really stands out. http://www.velonews.com/2018/03/bikes-and-tech/first-ride-canyon-grail-cf-unusual-hover-bar_459593
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Crossbones

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Reply with quote  #16 
If this design is significantly better than a Redshift stem, I think it could be re-engineered with a normal stem placed low and "biplane" bars. But I don't think it will happen. I personally hate when manufacters design areas of normal options with zero options!
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chas

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Reply with quote  #17 

I think in practical usage, it would work great - cush and high on the top, stiff in the drops. Its not clear that the ergonomics have worked out well (complaints from people with small hands (wrist interference), and that thumb hook when on the drops). That and your brain is going to get confused seeing two levels in the middle.

Certainly all of Canyon's high end road bikes have the integrated stem and bar combination (with adjustable stack). Its Aero, balances stiffness/flexibility, and light weight. And yeah, adjusting or tuning isn't easy (or in this case not possible). I expect that the Aluminum bike will be a little more standard.

I wouldn't say it is a problem that doesn't exist. We now have lots of Gravel solutions:
Now we have
- Canyon biplane bars
- Redshift stem
- Canondale lefty shocks
- Trek Isospeed
- Specialized Future Shock
- Lauf fork
- soft 650b x 2.1 tires...

Edit: this comment was about Canyon's bar:
One review said it was noticeable and it helped...
... about as much double wrapping the tape.

Canyon does make some innovative polarizing designs. I like the way they push the envelope.

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ti473

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Reply with quote  #18 
beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think they look awesome!
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frontrangegravel

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Reply with quote  #19 
Chas,
For what it's worth, that Redshift stem has brought out some of the most positive feedback from readers and listeners we've seen. Admittedly, I was surprised to see that so many people liked it. But it was enough feedback that I can't really dismiss it as just hype. 

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Jim_H

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Reply with quote  #20 

That handlebar is a deal breaker for me.

I spend 99% of my time on the hoods, and 1% in the drops (maybe a little more with my wider flare now).

I spend zero time on the tops of my bars, so the 'flex' would provide no value at the cost of zero flexibility in terms of fit (stem length, bar width, etc...).

The bike looks like a decent gravel bike other than that.  Let me but a standard bar/stem combo on it and it *might* get some consideration...

Edit to add: 40mm tires max?  nope.. I'm out...

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spandy24

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Reply with quote  #21 
Yea i really wish they'd offer that frame with the option to either have the "hover bar" or a traditional stem/bar combo...  missed opportunity.. [frown]
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Jim_H

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Reply with quote  #22 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbones
If this design is significantly better than a Redshift stem, I think it could be re-engineered with a normal stem placed low and "biplane" bars. But I don't think it will happen. I personally hate when manufacters design areas of normal options with zero options!


Redshift stem provides compliance regardless of your hand position, unlike this bar, which only flexes when your hand weight is on the top of the bars (where you need it least).

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widerisfaster

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spandy24
Yea i really wish they'd offer that frame with the option to either have the "hover bar" or a traditional stem/bar combo...  missed opportunity.. [frown]


"An Aluminium version with a standard cockpit is slated for release later." - CyclingTips

The SLX Frameset is available to built up, so once the Alu bike is available, they may release the bar to fit, or release a non hoverbar CF model.

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SamSam

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Reply with quote  #24 
Some sources state the aluminium version is due later this year, while other sources claim it will be released in 2019

I'm willing to wait untill summer/September for the alu one, but otherwise I'm buying my gravel rig elsewhere
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TaTaToothy

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Reply with quote  #25 
Pricing is up now in USD, and it's surprisingly aggressive.  Full Ultegra bike is $2,899, and Ultegra Di2 is $3,599.  Seems more than fair for what you get.  https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road/grail
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