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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have wheels narrowed down to two choices. One is 25mm ID and the other 28mm. The 28 is going to be the better deal but is that too wide to run on a gravel bike with 35c - 40c tires?
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shiggy

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Reply with quote  #2 
For me, 25mm is to wide. The ride becomes dead, handling sluggish, I have more pinch flats and sidewall damage. Have experienced this with road, gravel, mtb, and fatbikes using relatively wide rim/narrow tire setups. ~20mm internal is my upper limit for tires under ~45mm.
25mm is for mtbs. I use 30mm (35 external) for 3.0" tires. Tried the 3.0" on 50mm (external) rims and managed to cover 4miles in two rides with 3 pinch flats and 2 slashed sidewalls.
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Slim

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Reply with quote  #3 
While I tend to go a bit wider than Shiggy's recommendation, it would say that 28mm is definitely to wide. I am running some 28mm wide rims on my mtb and even 2.2 tires start to really get a different shape, losing the cornering knobs since the casing is so much wider than the tread.
On my 21mm internal rims on mygravel bike I tried a 25mm tire, but didn't feel safe with that, narrowest I'll run on those is 28.
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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #4 
For the wheel/rims I'm looking at, the other options are a 17.5mm Bontrager wheel and WTB i19 or i25 rims o rpossible the KOM 19mm. I'm drawn to the Bontrager since they have the DT Swiss 240 equivalent hubs and I've been really curious about using DT Swiss hubs. The other rims will likely be built with Hope hubs at my local shop though I thought about doing DT Swiss 350 with a ratchet upgrade. Price not an issue because they will be very similar in cost between the options.
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bobknh

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Reply with quote  #5 
My $.02: Rims, tires, hubs, tires, tubes (or no tubes) are all part of a system. What is important, is that all components of that system are designed to work well together, and function well for the purpose and the bike they are designed for. That's a big mouth full. But what I'm trying to say, is that the question - 25 vs. 28 mm can't really be answered. This problem is similar to asking what is the best frame material. The real problem that we are dealing with is the fact that Gravel Grinders are a new species. Hence, manufactures a re-purposing bikes, equipment, and components, originally designed for cyclecross, road turing, and mountain bikes. Some of that stuff works very well, some of it sucks. The good news is that as GG grows, more manufactures are focusing on these bikes, and we can look forward to more purpose built and and designed bikes and components.
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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #6 
I guess it can be answered though. Maybe better is subjective in some instances but this time around it seems that at least the first two seem to think that a 28mm rim on a gravel road bike running 35c up to 40c tires is too wide. And not just because it's their preference but great points about the tire being stretched too far making them less effective and potentially even unrideable. That's kinda what I'm looking for. Of course some personal experience and preference is appreciated as well such as maybe a 17.5mm vs 19mm comparison or 19mm vs 23mm something like that. I just know that for me...a new wheel investment is something I can't do often. I can't just play around with rim widths to see what I like and don't like by buying numerous wheels. It's kinda a one shot deal.

Let me add that it seems that the stock wheels on my new bike (picking up today!!!) will be 19mm ID so I'll get a chance to see how those are with a 35c tire at least. I am curious how the 17.5mm would be and if I'd be doing myself a disservice going with a rim that narrow.
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RoverAl

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Reply with quote  #7 
He Nubster have you seen this article by GT co-owner of this site. There are a couple parts, a good read as usual with GT's write ups.

http://ridinggravel.com/components/project-wide-gravel-wheels-getting-rolling/
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DrSpoke

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Reply with quote  #8 
https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Tech-PDF/Tire_Pressure_Dimension
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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #9 
After getting some other thoughts on another forum and reading the article posted by RoverAl...I'm going to be looking at some 23mm ID rims. Seems like they are probably the sweet spot width. 
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jonz

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Reply with quote  #10 
I have 17mm ID rims and the switch to tubeless was a big hassle.  I don't think there is enough room for the tire beads and a universal valve stem.  I had to buy a Stan's cyclocross rim strip to get it to work.  If/when I break these, I'll be looking for 21mm ID rim to run 40mm tires.
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sgtrobo

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiggy
For me, 25mm is to wide. The ride becomes dead, handling sluggish, I have more pinch flats and sidewall damage. Have experienced this with road, gravel, mtb, and fatbikes using relatively wide rim/narrow tire setups. ~20mm internal is my upper limit for tires under ~45mm. 25mm is for mtbs. I use 30mm (35 external) for 3.0" tires. Tried the 3.0" on 50mm (external) rims and managed to cover 4miles in two rides with 3 pinch flats and 2 slashed sidewalls.


i have 21mm id roval controls (DT Swiss 350 internals) that work with their terra pros.  21mm is about as wide as I'll go

side note - Rovals are pretty darn good wheels for the money
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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #12 
Rovals look pretty good other than the 18t internals...I assume that's what they are since it says DT Swiss 350 internals. So $600 for the wheels and another $50+ to upgrade the ratchet put them a bit higher than I can get other wheels with better engagement. And yeah...18t is a deal killer for me. I've been on wheels with 20+ and I hate it. If they were the 36t ratchets...I'd definitely give them some consideration.
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shiggy

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubster
Rovals look pretty good other than the 18t internals...I assume that's what they are since it says DT Swiss 350 internals. So $600 for the wheels and another $50+ to upgrade the ratchet put them a bit higher than I can get other wheels with better engagement. And yeah...18t is a deal killer for me. I've been on wheels with 20+ and I hate it. If they were the 36t ratchets...I'd definitely give them some consideration.

Makes absolutely no difference for me, especially for road/gravel use. I am almost always pedaling, with the free hub engaged, or coasting at high speeds where they are not. A few degrees of engagement difference means less than the gear I am using at the transitions.
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AlanEsh

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Reply with quote  #14 
My 25mm WTBs paired with Surly Knard (41mm) tires have been a nice upgrade from my Willard's stock wheels. I run tubed and have had no ill effects from running this wide with those tires. 225lbs rolling at 42psi front and 47psi rear.
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Nubster

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Reply with quote  #15 
But do you think running tubeless would have a different (negative) effect on rims that wide? That's my goal...to roll tubeless with the new wheels since they will be my gravel wheels that way I can run lower pressure and still stay inflated. Tubes, low pressure, and a fat ass isn't a good combo so I need the juice in my tires. I'll stay with tubes on the stock wheels with road tires and 65-70 psi...that's not a problem.
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shiggy

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubster
But do you think running tubeless would have a different (negative) effect on rims that wide? That's my goal...to roll tubeless with the new wheels since they will be my gravel wheels that way I can run lower pressure and still stay inflated. Tubes, low pressure, and a fat ass isn't a good combo so I need the juice in my tires. I'll stay with tubes on the stock wheels with road tires and 65-70 psi...that's not a problem.

I run the same or higher pressure tubeless than with tubes. About tire support and stability, and flat prevention. Bottom out a tubeless tire and you cut the casing rather than a tube. Been there.
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AlanEsh

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubster
But do you think running tubeless would have a different (negative) effect on rims that wide? That's my goal...to roll tubeless with the new wheels since they will be my gravel wheels that way I can run lower pressure and still stay inflated. Tubes, low pressure, and a fat ass isn't a good combo so I need the juice in my tires. I'll stay with tubes on the stock wheels with road tires and 65-70 psi...that's not a problem.

Just be careful about the tire you mount. If you mount a tire that when spread out by a wider rim exposes the sidewalls toward the riding surface, then a cut is more likely. Does that make sense? What I'm saying is, if the tire is wide (40mm+) and the tread area of the contact patch is sufficient side to side, then spreading the tire out with a wide rim isn't going to expose the sidewalls to any more hazards than a narrower rim would.
(edit: adding some pics of my Knards on WTB i25 rims to show how the sidewall isn't being exposed to more hazards by the wider rim spreading the tire)
IMG_3008.JPG IMG_3009.JPG 

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